Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin’s Death

[Update, 7/5/13: For updated material concerning the ongoing trial of George Zimmerman, please see more recent posts concerning the undisputed facts at the conclusion of the prosecution’s case, the significance of Selene Bahadoor’s testimony, and Zimmerman’s inability to explain how he fell backwards but ended up 40 feet forward.]

[Update, 4/15/12: For an analysis of the criminal laws implicated by this case, please see my follow-up post on the specific criminal charges brought against George Zimmerman, and his available statutory defenses.]

[Update, 4/29/12: Having finally looked at a longer copy of the phone records for Trayvon Martin’s phone, I’ve revised portions of the timeline to reflect the new information contained there. However, I now believe that the T-Mobile call logs are hopelessly unreliable for giving call times with any accuracy more than + 59 seconds. I did some rough experiments with my own phone, since my cell plan is also through T-Mobile, and it appears to me that the recorded times on T-Mobile statements are not at all exact, and can be as much as 59 seconds off from the actual time at which a call was made. Calls were wrongly recorded both as occurring later and sooner than from when they were actually made, so the error isn’t due to T-Mobile’s clock being fast or slow — the times are just off.]

[Update, 5/28/12: Lot of new information has been released while I was out of town. Working now on going through it all and updating the timeline with the information obtained from the new docs.]

[Update, 7/20/12: This timeline of events has been superseded by the release of a great deal of discovery that was unavailable at the time that it was constructed. The time stamps on the various phone calls still stand, obviously, but some of the interpretations of that data have to be changed in light of the additional evidence.]

I wanted to write a more in depth post the death of Trayvon Martin and the possible criminal charges arising from it, but when trying to figure out how strong Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense might be, I got frustrated by the lack of any in-depth, detailed time lines of the events leading up to and immediately following Trayvon’s death. In order to get a better idea of what exactly happened, I’ve laid out here a chronology of the shooting based on (1) call logs of the calls to 911 and the police made that night; (2) recordings of the calls themselves; and (3) the police report and surveillance video that have been made available to the public.

The records show that less than ten minutes passed from Zimmerman’s first sighting of Trayvon, to Zimmerman’s shooting of Trayvon as they wrestled in a neighborhood walkway between houses. Where possible, I’ve included the times of events down to the second, but some events and phone calls were only recorded by the minute, making some guess work necessary.

To start with, I’ve put together a quick diagram of some of the relevant locations that are referenced in the post. (Thanks for the image, Xie!)

Relevant Documents

Timeline of Events

6:22:08pm: Surveillance footage of the 7-Eleven near the Retreat View neighborhood shows Trayvon entering the store.

6:24:33pm: Trayvon buys a canned drink and a bag of candy, and departs the store. The clerk puts it in a brown plastic bag. That bag will later be found strewn near where Trayvon is shot.

6:54pm: Trayvon makes a call to “DeeDee,” a minor female that has been reported as his girlfriend. He is using a headset, walking home on his way back from the store after grabbing a snack and a drink, and he has been on the phone with DeeDee since he left there. According to DeeDee, it begins to rain, and he takes shelter at one of the buildings in the townhouse complex, while the two continue to chat. The referenced building is possibly the awning marked in purple on the above image.

7:04pm: An unknown individual makes a call to Trayvon while Trayvon is still talking to DeeDee. Unlike both Trayvon and DeeDee, this individual is not using a phone on a T-Mobile phone plan. Trayvon apparently puts DeeDee on hold, and then answers the new call in order to speak briefly to the new caller. This conversation lasts anywhere between 1 second and 59 seconds. After, Trayvon switches his call back to DeeDee. This phone call between DeeDee and Trayvon is recorded as having a duration of 18 minutes — which means from connection to termination, it was somewhere between 17 min, 0 seconds and 17 min, 59 seconds. Although the T-Mobile call times are imprecise, it would appear the call is disconnected at around 7:12pm.

7:09:34 pm: Zimmerman, in his truck, spots Trayvon. He calls the non-emergency dispatch number for the police, and the call log records his call as connecting with dispatch at 7:09:34pm. [Note: Relevant log begins on page 46.] He reports a suspicious black male in neighborhood. An recording of Zimmerman’s police call can be found here. Zimmerman states “The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.” Zimmerman meant to say 1111 Retreat View Circle. It appears that Trayvon is around the clubhouse when Zimmerman’s call to police begins, at the intersection of Retreat View and Twin Trees. This is consistent with DeeDee’s claims that Trayvon was hanging out under a complex building to take shelter from the rain.

7:10:16pm: Forty-five seconds after the phone call begins, Zimmerman reports that Trayvon is “here now,” indicating possibly that Trayvon was moving while Zimmerman was not. It’s possible Zimmerman’s car was parked at all times during his phone call to the police.

  • Zimmerman: “He’s here now … he’s just staring.”

7:10:20pm: Zimmerman’s phone call to police indicates that at this time, Trayvon becomes aware of the fact that Zimmerman is watching him. The two stare at one another, and Trayvon keeps walking.

  • Zimmerman: “Now he’s staring at me.”

7:10:22 – 7:10:35 pm:

  • Dispatch: “OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?”
  • Zimmerman: “That’s the clubhouse.”
  • Dispatch: “He’s near the clubhouse now?”
  • Zimmerman: “Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.”

It seems almost certain that Zimmerman was on Twin Trees Ln. at this point, since Trayvon’s path started at the clubhouse at the intersection of Retreat View and Twin Trees, and was heading towards the cut-through (circled in blue, above). It seems plausible that Zimmerman has been sitting in his parked truck, somewhere at the area marked in green in the image below, for the entire first half of his call to police. While watching from his truck, he sees Trayvon leaving the awning (marked in purple) and walking towards the cut-through, which means Trayvon’s path would’ve gone right past the car. Trayvon apparently noticed Zimmerman as he approaches, and keeps on walking.

This possible scenario, however, doesn’t completely fit with the timing from the call with DeeDee, which seems to indicate that Trayvon felt that he was being followed by someone at a time that would seem to be before Zimmerman exits the car — implying that Zimmerman may have been slowly following Trayvon while driving. My guess, though, is that the time stamps for T-Mobile’s call records and for the 911 logs are slightly off from one another, which explains any discrepancy between the two time lines.

7:11:14 pm: At this point, Trayvon appears to have walked past Zimmerman truck, possibly heading towards the cut through, where he would shortly be out of sight of Zimmerman.

  • Zimmerman: “These assholes. They always get away. … When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.”
  • Dispatcher: “OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?”
  • Zimmerman: “Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.

7:11:42 – 7:11:48pm: There is the sound of a car door opening at this point, immediately after Zimmerman says “he’s running,” and Zimmerman starts huffing; wind noises can be heard, and Zimmerman sounds slightly breathless. Zimmerman is able to see Trayvon plainly enough at this point to determine his direction, and believes he is going for the back entrance:

  • Zimmerman: “Shit, he’s running.”
  • Dispatcher: “He’s running? Which way is he running?”
  • Zimmerman: “Down toward the other [back] entrance of the neighborhood.”

The house where Trayvon is staying is directly between Trayvon’s approximate location at this time and the back entrance to the complex; Trayvon is probably actually running for his house. However, because both the house and the back entrance are to the southeast corner, there are two possible routes that Zimmerman could have seen Trayvon take off towards: (1) Trayvon stays on Twin Trees Ln., bolting south down the road; or (2) Trayvon runs for the cut-through, heading east, so that he can then turn and head south either on Retreat View or through the sidewalk between the rows of houses. Because Zimmerman’s reaction to Trayvon running is to get out of his car, it seems that scenario 2 is more likely — Zimmerman can’t follow in his car, he has to go on foot.

Approx. 7:12pm [+ or – 59 seconds off of 7:12pm, from the time as recorded by Zimmerman’s call to police. Exact time unknown]: The original phone call that Trayvon made to Dee, which lasted 18 minutes, is disconnected. Almost immediately after that phone call ends, DeeDee calls Trayvon  back. He answers, and DeeDee reports that he says to her, “I think this dude is following me.” She says that she tells him “Run!” and that Trayvon responded that he’s not going to run, he’s just going to walk fast.

The timing is close enough to suggest, but not perfect enough to say for sure, that when Zimmerman reports that “[Trayvon’s] running,” it’s at the same time as when DeeDee advised him to do just that. If so, it’s possible Trayvon was not telling the complete truth when he told her was just going to “walk fast,” perhaps to seem braver, but in reality had started running. Alternatively, Trayvon really did only start to “walk fast,” but Zimmerman, clearly worried about yet another asshole getting away, interprets this as “running” in his call to dispatch.

7:12:08 pm: After conversation about Zimmerman’s contact details, Zimmerman states to the dispatcher, “he ran.” From the general context, it seems that Zimmerman has now lost sight of Trayvon. The running/wind noises on the recording also cease abruptly at this point, and Zimmerman’s voice evens out. If this is the case, then Zimmerman has stopped his on-foot, running pursuit of Trayvon approximately 20 seconds after he began.


  • Dispatcher: “Alright, where are you going to meet with [police] at?”
  • Zimmerman: “Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck.”

I’m unclear where the mailboxes Zimmerman refers to are, but it appears from Google street view that they could be in the awning that Trayvon’s girlfriend says he took shelter in from the rain. If so, however, it’s hard to understand why police would “make a left and then go past the mailboxes.” But it makes more sense than anything else I can find, so it’s possible Zimmerman just misspoke again.

7:12:59: Zimmerman states that his truck is parked at “a cut-through” so he doesn’t know the address. The cut-through is the blue-circled area in the image, so Zimmerman’s truck is presumably in the vicinity of the green circled area. It may have been parked here from the very beginning of his call to police.

7:13:14pm: Zimmerman has lost Trayvon. He doesn’t want to say his address out loud because “I don’t know where this kid is.” Nine seconds later, Zimmerman tells dispatcher to have police call him when they arrive rather than meet at specific place, indicating that Zimmerman plans to keep moving, and doesn’t know where exactly he’ll be when police arrive.

7:13:41pm: Zimmerman’s phone call with dispatch ends.

7:14pm: There is approximately a one minute, thirty second period for which we have very little information about what occurred, from around 17:14:00 until 17:15:30. Zimmerman apparently keeps searching for Trayvon during this time period, and phone records show that Trayvon is still on the phone with DeeDee. Also during this period of time, neither party moves particularly far from their estimated locations at 7:13:00pm; it appears that they were either (1) walking extremely slowly, (2) had stopped somewhere before resuming movement, or (3) were taking non-direct paths. It’s possible that Trayvon, like Zimmerman when he refused to give his house number out, was worried about the stalker following him home and figuring out where he lived, so Trayvon did not run straight back, instead feinting one way before looping back around. Another possibility is that Trayvon, thinking he’d lost Zimmerman, was dawdling on his walk back home in order to finish his phone call with DeeDee — possibly because Trayvon, like most 17 year olds, generally prefers to have his phone calls with his significant other out of ear shot of his parents. The other two possibilities are that (1) Trayvon bolted on a pathway in the wrong direction from his house, in order to escape Zimmerman, after Trayvon initially started running/walked fast; he was then making his way back to his correct route when he encountered Zimmerman again; or (2) Trayvon, still on the phone with DeeDee, had in fact managed to start running on a direct path towards home, but decides to loop back to find Zimmerman again, in order to start a fight with the guy who dared to follow him.

Some small, extremely circumstantial evidence to suggest why Zimmerman may have been expecting Trayvon to run out the back entrance, and why Zimmerman may have tried to cut Trayvon off from going in that direction, comes from the police call logs. We know from Zimmerman’s previous calls to police that he had on at least two prior occasions called in to report that suspicious black males were hanging around the “back entrance” of the housing complex. (See pgs. 39-40 of the police dispatch logs.) On both those occasions, as with the call he made about Trayvon, Zimmerman stated that he believed the person he was watching had committed recent break ins in the neighborhood. On the two prior occasions, Zimmerman reported that the suspicious persons were at or headings towards the back entrance, and on one occasion, Zimmerman advised dispatch that the “subjects will run into the subdivision next to this complex,” and advised that law enforcement enter through the back entrance to meet him. It seems possible that if Zimmerman was going to follow Trayvon and lost him, his assumption would be Trayvon would be heading in that direction.

Approx. 7:15:30 – 7:15:45pm: Zimmerman and Trayvon encounter each other for the final time, in the area circled in red in the diagram above. At this point, all evidence from eye witnesses and police reports indicates that a fight between the two began and ended there, and that the parties did not substantially change position during the course of the struggle. Reports on the exact location of Trayvon’s body have varied, but it has been established it was somewhere in the grass in the row between the houses, closer to the north side than the south..

There are a half dozen different versions of how the altercation between Zimmerman and Trayvon occurred and what happened during the course of it.

7:15 – 7:16pm, DeeDee’s version of events: Trayvon tells DeeDee that he thinks he has lost the dude that was following him. DeeDee then hears voices, as if Trayvon and his pursuer have run into each other again. She says something like the following exchanged occurred between the two individuals:

  • Trayvon: “Why are you following me?”
  • Zimmerman: “What are you doing here?”

At that point, it sounds to DeeDee as if one party shoves the other. DeeDee thinks she hears Trayvon’s headset fall off, and the phone call cuts out at approximately 7:16pm, four minutes after it starts. It is my suspicion that the T-Mobile records are about 30 seconds slower than the time kept by the police dispatch’s clock– which would mean that the phone call started at 7:11:30, and ended at 7:15:30, a timeline that would mean that DeeDee’s description of events pretty much precisely matches up with the times as recorded by various 911 and police calls, down to the second. If her phone call with Trayvon instead ended at 7:16 on the police department’s clock, then the first 911 call from a neighbor came in 11 seconds or less after the fight initially started — that doesn’t seems plausible.

7:15 – 7:16pm, Zimmerman’s version of events: Zimmerman has not given an “official” version of his story, and the versions that have been reported by other sources are somewhat inconsistent, with some of the versions being extremely implausible. One initial report alleges that the confrontation began while Zimmerman was still in his truck, and that Trayvon approached the parked truck to ask Zimmerman why he was following him. Zimmerman “rolled down his window” to say he wasn’t, and Trayvon left, only for the fight to later occur on the cut through. This story has not been repeated since, and if Zimmerman really did initially give this version of events, he’s not sticking with it any longer.

The most consistent report that is alleged to be Zimmerman’s version of the encounter provides roughly the following: Zimmerman had gotten out of his car to check on an address, to tell police where to go. [This itself makes little sense — Zimmerman’s car was in front of the houses, where house addresses are visible and displayed, whereas behind the houses there are only porches and no visible addresses.] Zimmerman was then “returning to his truck,” [although still 150 ft. away, if his truck is in fact parked in the green circled area] but Trayvon approached Zimmerman from behind and confronted him. Either Trayvon (somehow) reaches around from behind to sucker punch Zimmerman in the nose, or else the two have a verbal confrontation and turn to face each other before the first punch is thrown. Zimmerman falls to the ground, and Trayvon jumps on him, punching Zimmerman and slamming his head into concrete. Zimmerman eventually is able to pull his handgun free from its holster and fires once at Trayvon, who is pinning him down. Trayvon is hit in the chest and dies.

7:15 – 7:16pm, Trayvon’s father’s recounting of how police described Zimmerman’s initial report to them:

  • Trayvon: appears from behind a building, approaches Zimmerman, and says, “What’s your problem, homie?”
  • Zimmerman: “I don’t have a problem.”
  • Trayvon: “You do now.” He then punches Zimmerman, knocking him to the ground, pinning him down.
  • Trayvon: tells Zimmerman, “Shut the fuck up.”
  • Zimmerman: while being beaten by Trayvon, pulls his gun and fires one shot at close range into Trayvon’s chest.
  • Trayvon: “You got me.” Falls over, dead.

7:15 – 7:16pm, Zimmerman’s father’s version of events: Zimmerman is walking along the sidewalk (area circled in red?) in order to “find an address.”

  • Trayvon: walks up to Zimmerman, says, “Do you have a fucking problem?”
  • Zimmerman: “No, I don’t have a problem.” Zimmerman starts to reach for his cell phone to call police, but Trayvon punches him in the nose. Zimmerman’s nose is broken and he is knocked to the concrete.
  • Trayvon: gets on top of Zimmerman and punches him repeatedly. While punching Zimmerman on the ground below him, Trayvon sees Zimmerman’s gun.
  • Trayvon: “You’re going to die tonight.”
  • Zimmerman: draws his pistol while on the ground, and shoots Trayvon once in the chest.

7:15 – 7:16pm, Zimmerman’s brother’s version of events: Zimmerman’s brother states that Zimmerman was not patrolling the neighborhood; rather, he was driving to Target when he noticed a suspicious looking person in his gated community, and called the police to report it. Zimmerman’s brother alleges that Zimmerman stopped following Trayvon when the police dispatcher told him to. Zimmerman then then lost sight of Trayvon, and about a minute later, the following occurs:

  • Trayvon: sneaks up on Zimmerman.
  • Zimmerman: tries to grab his phone to call 911 and intends to say to police “Well, this person who I lost sight of and was not pursuing has now confronted me.” Zimmerman is unable to complete this call because Trayvon broke his nose with a punch, and began slamming Zimmerman’s head into the sidewalk.
  • Trayvon: sees Zimmerman’s gun and tries to grab it.
  • Trayvon: says to Zimmerman either (1) “You die tonight,” or possibly (2) “You have a piece, you die tonight.”
  • Zimmerman: screams for help, but then grabs gun and shoots Trayvon when Trayvon tries to muscle it away.

Zimmerman’s brother adds in that there is a witness that saw what happened, “from the first blow.” The brother does not explain why this witness did not help Zimmerman, who he is, or why he was around to see the fight in the first place.

7:15 – 7:16pm, version of events attributed to “Zimmerman’s parents”: An unidentified female neighbor and friend reports that Zimmerman’s parents are strongly maintaining that the shooting was in self-defense: “What [Zimmerman’s parents] told us is that he was reaching for his cell phone and Trayvon Martin saw his gun and reached for the gun and there was a struggle.” This story is somewhat reminiscent of Zimmerman’s brother’s story, regarding Zimmerman going for a phone, which ignited the physical struggle.

7:15 – 7:16pm, unidentified law enforcement official’s version of events: The Daily Beast quotes an unidentified individual with the Sanford Police Department who is not involved in the case but apparently had some exposure to the investigation. According to him, Zimmerman’s statement to police was that after losing track of Trayvon, Zimmerman “went around a townhouse to see where he was.” This supports two things: first, that Zimmerman was actively hunting for Trayvon at the time of the altercation, and second, that Zimmerman was not following the sidewalk routes, but ducking through gaps in houses. This is possible support for the theory that Zimmerman unexpectedly cut off Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk routes. It also puts the “Trayvon was in hiding waiting to attack Zimmerman” theory in doubt, because it’s not clear how Trayvon’s could have anticipated Zimmerman’s unusual path.

The law enforcement official also reports that Zimmerman’s story is that Martin confronted him, and then knocked him to the ground with a punch. Zimmerman then said that “when he was on the ground, Martin straddled him, striking him, and then tried to smother him.” This ‘smothering’ claim is a new detail that has not been repeated before, and it’s somewhat confusing. If Trayvon was in fact on top of Zimmerman, perhaps Zimmerman interpreted the weight on his chest as an attempt to “smother” him, but the idea that any attacker in Trayvon’s situation would try and use “smothering” as an attack does not make much sense. The law enforcement official’s report goes on to state that:

Zimmerman claimed that he yelled for help, and that various neighbors who peered out to see the fight from their backyards didn’t get involved. Zimmerman…  told officers he was so paralyzed by fear that he initially forgot he had a gun, but he said that after Martin noticed his 9mm pistol, Zimmerman pulled it out of his belt holder and fired one round, a hollow-point—the round that killed Martin.

Zimmerman also told police that, after being shot, Trayvon’s last words were “Okay, you got it, okay, you got it,” and then Trayvon turned and fell face-down on the ground. Although these words sounds similar to what Trayvon’s dad were told his last words were — i.e., “you got me” — even assuming Zimmerman is telling the truth as he knows it, my assumption is that he misheard Trayvon. Someone seconds from death from a hollow point bullet wound to the chest is not going to be enunciating clearly or making dramatic statements. The more likely scenario is that Trayvon said something like “you shot me… you shot me,” in disbelief and shock.

Finally, the last new information from the Daily Beast’s source is that “Zimmerman told police he didn’t realize that Martin was seriously injured, and that he lunged to get on top of him after the teenager fell to the ground.” This would seem to match one of the 911 caller’s statements to the 911 dispatcher which, although confused, reported seeing Zimmerman on top of Trayvon after the shooting. Although it should have been obvious that a point blank shot to the chest with a hollow point bullet is going to be a serious wound all of the time and a fatal wound most of the time, it is believable that, with the adrenaline pumping, Zimmerman wasn’t thinking clearly. However, this is also another indication that Zimmerman’s subjective interpretation of events should be treated with cautious skepticism — Zimmerman was plainly not thinking completely logically or coherently, if he thought the bullet to the chest was not a “serious injury.” The fact Zimmerman thought it necessary to try and restrain Trayvon and “lunge to get on top of him” after shooting the kid in the chest shows Zimmerman’s threat detection systems were on overload,.

7:16:11 pm: The first of six 911 calls is made by a neighbor whose house is immediately adjacent to where the shooting occurred. A high pitched, desperate male voice can be heard yelling “help” repeatedly, from the very beginning of the phone call, and continues on for some time — there are occasional pauses, and occasional nonsensical yells, but for the most part the voice is consistently yelling “help” “help” “help” over and over again.

7:16:56 pm: Forty-five seconds into the first 911 call, a gunshot is heard. The last cry of “hel-” seems to be cut off simultaneously with the shot. Assuming that the first 911 caller took at least 15 seconds to hear sounds of fighting, recognize what it was, and pull out a phone to make a 911 call, this means that the physical struggle between Zimmerman and Trayvon went on for a minimum of one minute. The first 911 caller was still quick on the draw, however, and is unlikely to have taken more than 30 seconds to make the call. This gives a maximum fight duration of perhaps a minute and a half. Estimate time of the fight’s beginning is therefore 7:15:35 – 7:15:55pm.

7:17:55 pm (estimated): By around 17:17:55 – 17:18:07pm, several 911 callers report seeing a “man with a flashlight” outside, followed by a second flash light approximately one minute, fifteen seconds later. These are almost certainly Officers Smith and Ayala, who were first on the scene.

Officer Smith, the first officer to arrive, parks his car at 2821 Retreat View Circle. Officer Smith has been dispatched to respond to police calls made by Zimmerman twice before in recent weeks, once on January 29, 2012, and once again on February 6, 2012. He likely has encountered and spoken to Zimmerman before, although this has not been officially confirmed. Per the police report of the incident, when he arrives on scene on the night of February 26, a few seconds before 7:18pm, he cuts through the houses on the Retreat View side of the walkway, and into the area circled in red. He sees Zimmerman walking around and Trayvon lying “face down in the grass.” Zimmerman states to Smith that he shot the individual on the ground, and that he was still armed. Smith immediately moves to remove the gun, and observes that Zimmerman has a wet back and appears to be covered in grass, “as if he had been laying on his back on the ground.” He observes blood on the back of Zimmerman’s head, and on his nose. He removes from Zimmerman’s “waist band” the handgun and holster — it is not clear if the handgun is in the holster, or if both the holster and handgun are tucked into the waistband. He puts Zimmerman in the back of his squad car.

Officer Ayala arrives about a minute after Officer Smith, and observes Trayvon laying face down. His police report indicates that he observed that Trayvon “had his hands underneath his body.” Ayala begins emergency response treatment, but Trayvon never becomes responsive. He will be pronounced dead 11 minutes later.

The later-released police reports state that when Officers Raimondo and Ayala approached Trayvon’s body to attempt first aid, Trayvon “was lying on his stomach with his head oriented in the general direction of north.” In contrast, Officer Santiago, who arrives later on the scene, reports that Trayvon’s head “to the west.” It’s unclear if Trayvon’s head was actually oriented northwest, and both officers are right, or if Trayvon was rotated during the course of CPR.

Photos of the crime scene seem to show Trayvon’s body laying in the grass approx. 5-6 feet from the sidewalk. Trayvon was rolled over by police when they attempted to give first aid, so it’s possible he was originally laid out approx. 4-5 feet from the sidewalk. Either way, it does bring Zimmerman’s “head being bashed into concrete” story into doubt.

At autopsy, Trayvon’s cause of death is determined to be a single gunshot to the chest, which struck Tayvon’s heart and a lung, “1/2 inch below the nipple.” The direction of the gunshot is reported as “directly from front to back,” and was shot from “an intermediate distance.” The only other injury reported to Trayvon is 1/4″ by 1/8″ inch small abrasion to the left fourth finger.

The ME report also states that “Witnesses observed the two fighting in the yard and then the resident fired a handgun at the male striking him In the chest. The male fell to the ground.” It would appear the ME was given incomplete or inaccurate information regarding how the shooting took place, which was then incorporated into the report.

7:19pm: An unidentified civilian described only as “the photographer” takes a picture of the back of Zimmerman’s head. ABC News reports that file details show it was taken on location “three minutes after the shooting[,]” although the exact time is not specified. The photograph clearly shows the blood that was reported by Officer Smith, and it appears that the blood is coming from a wound on Zimmerman’s head, and did not originate from another source. This photo is useful in that it eliminates all outlier possibilities regarding Zimmerman’s head wound — that is, we can rule out the possibilities that either no wound existed, or that the wound was so great that, as Zimmerman’s brother reported, his head was a bloody pulp — but it is impossible to tell from this picture alone the exact extent of the wound. There isn’t enough blood for there to have been a serious gash, but for head injuries, a gash is going to be a far less serious problem than are non-visible internal injuries. On the other hand, the SFD’s actions,  in treating Zimmerman’s injuries, do not indicate that they any apparent concern for a brain injury of any type.

The wound is also very high up on Zimmerman’s head. I’m not entirely sure what to make of that — I think the wound pretty much has to have originated from Zimmerman’s head contacting the ground, but it’s not where I would expect it if it came from either a fall or from a deliberate attempt to smack someone’s head into the ground.

The ABC News “photographer” also states that gunpowder marks were clearly visible on Martin’s hooded sweatshirt. Using my CSI training, a.k.a., by doing some quick google research, gunpowder residue will be somewhat apparent on a target that was shot from a range of around three feet or less, but heavy concentrations show up at shooting ranges of under 12 inches. If the gunpowder marks were clearly visible on gray fabric, in night time viewing conditions, then I think it is a fair assumption that Zimmerman shot Trayvon from a distance of 12 inches or less.

7:22pm, onwards: Zimmerman is taken into custody and cuffed by Officer Smith shortly before Officer Ayala arrives. As Ayala is giving CPR to Trayvon, Smith puts Zimmerman in the back of the police cruiser. Zimmerman receives first aid from the Sanford Fire Department while sitting in the back of Officer Smith’s car. At some point, Zimmerman announces, unasked, “I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.” No questioning is performed at this time, and he is transported to the police station.

Police appear to have immediately accepted Zimmerman’s version of events. When one witness/911 caller gave a statement to police about an hour later, she started crying and stated she wished she could have helped. The officer responds, “If it makes you feel any better, the cries for help were not the person that died.” It’s clear that the police poisoned the witness statements by instructing the witnesses as to details they had not witnessed or did not know themselves, which likely contributed to the recent witness reversals and contradictions in testimony.

While performing first aid on Trayvon, Officer Raimondo finds a “large, cold can” of Arizona drink in Trayvon’s hoodie pocket. Officer Santiago reported that a cell phone was found “near the area of Martin”, but does not give precise details. The packet of skittles are also located in the hoodie pocket, and have traces of blood on them.

Investigators at the scene also find a key chain with a Honda remote key on it, which reportedly belongs to Zimmerman, near the “T” junction of the pathway between the houses. The key chain has a small silver flashlight-key chain attached to it, and the flashlight has been reported as still being on when police located it, suggesting Zimmerman was using it at the time of the altercation.

There is also a black flashlight found ~30 feet from the Honda key chain, closer to Trayvon’s body; this black flashlight had blood residue on it. I’ve seen the 6″ black flashlight described as belonging to Zimmerman, but I have seen no confirming reports for this. The black flashlight is also described as a “tactical” flashlight that could be used as a weapon; this may suggest it came from a responding police officer rather than Zimmerman, but the proximity to the keys could suggest it was Zimmerman’s, and dropped along with the keys when the confrontation started.

If the flashlight belongs to the police, the blood evidence found on it is insignificant and easily explainable. If it belongs to Zimmerman, however, it is a somewhat incongruous finding, as the flashlight if several feet away from where the “main” physical altercation is reported to have taken place, and is at least 10 feet away from where Trayvon was shot. If Zimmerman simply dropped the flashlight and keys before the fight started, there would not be blood on the flashlight — this possibly suggests that Zimmerman was still holding the tactical flashlight when he received the injury to his nose. But if so, why did Zimmerman not use it to defend himself against Trayvon? The tactical flashlight was Zimmerman’s, and during Zimmerman’s non-emergency call, you can hear him banging it to try and turn it on. Zimmerman seems to have had it in his hands during the altercation, but Zimmerman’s recounting of the fight is unclear about how he managed to carry it with him throughout the fight.

Although the keychain flashlight/Honda keys were found closer to the sidewalk on the “T” than was the tactical flashlight and the body, the shell casing from the shot that killed Trayvon is found ~40 feet from the “T”, and several feet away from the sidewalk. It appears to be located close to where Trayvon’s body ultimately ended up, but this is difficult to confirm from the released photos. above his head and slightly to the left.

The shell casing is marked by the yellow arrow, just left to the #6 marker. The #7 marker is Trayvon’s phone, while the #5 marker is the black tactical flashlight.

7:52pm: Time stamp on start of surveillance video of Sanford police department showing Zimmerman’s arrival in squad car. Zimmerman’s shirt is neatly tucked in, and he is moving without any apparent impediment beyond the handcuffs. Police allow him to move freely, aside from the cuffs. There is no visible blood, and police officers use no protective equipment; they can be observed inspecting Zimmerman, as well as manually handling him as they look him over. One policeman touches Zimmerman, and then wipes his hand off on his trousers. A small head wound on the upper back portion of Zimmerman’s head may be visible.

Photos taken before the blood was cleaned up from Zimmerman’s scalp show blood draining in small rivulets down his skull, rather than gushing. It may be significant that the rivulets uniformly tend to drain towards Zimmerman’s face, which means whenever Zimmerman was bleeding, his head was facing towards the ground. It is unclear when this bleeding occurred, however.

Back at the station, Zimmerman gave his story to police at least three times before being released. Police say his story remained consistent throughout, although we have not been provided with the precise contours of what that story consisted of. Zimmerman also made at least one of those statements while being video recorded.

Notes and Observations about the Timeline

In no particular order, here are some assorted observations about what implications the above timeline has on Trayvon Martin’s death.

The eye witness reports should not be relied upon. It was dark, there was bad weather, it was a brief and frantic fight, and no one knows what they saw. Eye witnesses get things wrong even under the best of viewing conditions, and the conditions at the time of Trayvon’s death were anything but that, in terms of expected reliability of witness recall. The 911 calls are themselves full of real-time descriptions from witnesses to the immediate aftermath of the shooting — and even when describing what they were seeing at the exact same time as they were seeing it, their descriptions do not match reality. One witness, for instance, describes that “there is a black male standing over” the deceased victim after the shooting had occurred, which is obviously an incorrect description of the scene. Another witness describing the fight states that “the guy on top has a white t-shirt” — an article of clothing which neither Zimmerman nor Trayvon were wearing at the time. (Zimmerman’s t-shirt was gray, but it was under a red (orange) jacket. Trayvon’s hoodie was gray as well, but it was long sleeved and not a t-shirt.)

In short, the witnesses can prove next to nothing about what happened here. The recordings of the 911 calls that they made, on the other hand, are far more useful in piecing together what happened.

[Update, 5/28/12: By now, at least five witnesses have been reported as changing their stories. This is unsurprising, particularly as it has become clear that the police who took the witness statements improperly coached and/or unintentionally tampered with the witness’s recollections, by telling them facts and events they could not know in order to “correct” or “clarify” their testimony. In short, it has become even more clear that no definitive conclusions should be drawn about any of the events in this cases on the basis of eyewitness testimony alone.]

Zimmerman’s testimony is not being publicly disclosed, but will be an important source of impeachment evidence at trial. The State’s 5/24/12 Motion for Protective Order revealed a key element of the State’s case: Zimmerman’s statements to the police have been inconsistent, and are not fully supported by the available physical and eye witness evidence: “Defendant (Zimmerman) has provided law enforcement with numerous statements, some of which are contradictory, and are inconsistent with the physical evidence and statements of witnesses”. At this point we don’t know what Zimmerman’s version of the story is, but it looks like there’s at least more than one version he has been telling police, and it has some holes in it.

The crime scene does not support Zimmerman’s claim that Trayvon was pounding his head into the sidewalk. Trayvon was unarmed. Perhaps to make up for this fact, Zimmerman’s claim for why he was in imminent fear of death or grave bodily harm — and therefore why Zimmerman was allowed to kill Trayvon in self-defense — is that Trayvon was pounding his head into the concrete sidewalk. Although there is a sidewalk running through the middle of where the shooting occurred, the claim that Zimmerman’s head was being bashed into it does not make sense, because: (1) Zimmerman’s back had grass on it. Assuming that Zimmerman and Trayvon encountered each other while on the sidewalk, how could Zimmerman have fallen so that his legs and back were off the sidewalk, while his head was still on it? (2) Zimmerman was a bouncer for illegal house parties; during the course of a 1 minute long fight with a kid thirty pounds lighter than him, there is no possible explanation for how Zimmerman was able to move enough to get his back and legs onto grass, but not his head. In order to pound someone’s head into the ground while they are pinned down, you would literally have to pull their head up with one hand and before shoving it down again — and a one-armed pin is far easier to break. If you are pinning someone down with both arms, there is no way for you to repeatedly slam their head down, short of physically picking them up by the shoulders (while you’re sitting on their waist).  (3) Trayvon’s body was found face down in the grass, with his arms underneath him. According to his father, Trayvon’s legs were on the sidewalk, while his head and torso were perpendicular to the sidewalk, on the grass. If Trayvon was shot in the chest while pinning/punching Zimmerman on the ground, his body would presumably have crumpled down to where it was found — which was in the grass, and not on the sidewalk. If Trayvon had Zimmerman pinned, face to face, how did his head ultimately come to be far away from the sidewalk, if just before he was shot he was pounding Zimmerman’s head into the sidewalk?

How Zimmerman got out from underneath Trayvon after shooting him, without rolling Trayvon onto his back, is another mystery. It also contradicts at least one report of what Zimmerman said happened, which is that Trayvon “fell back” saying “you got me” after the shooting. The best explanation for how Trayvon’s body was found that I can think of is that Trayvon, after being shot, fell on his back, or was pushed off of Zimmerman onto his back/side. Zimmerman, who witnesses have described as “standing over” the victim immediately after the shooting, then turns Trayvon onto his stomach, perhaps to check for an exit wound or in a clumsy attempt to see if he was still alive. This would plausibly cause at least one of Trayvon’s arms to be pinned under his body, and possibly the second. Or perhaps only one arm was pinned under Trayvon’s body, and Officer Ayala did not correctly see the positioning of the second arm.

Voice analysis of the first 911 call will be the single most important factor in this case. Listening to the first 911 call, it is painfully clear that whoever can be heard shouting for help is in imminent fear for their life. This isn’t the scream of someone in a wrestling match — it’s the wild, animal panic of someone who believes that they are about to die. If the voice shouting “help” is in fact Zimmerman’s, then, whether or not such a fear was objectively reasonable, his subjective fear that Trayvon was about to kill him would appear to be entirely genuine.

However, if the voice is in fact Zimmerman’s, then it also shows that Zimmerman was in control enough of the fight to have the breath to scream and plead for help, and that his shouts for “help” were not cut off by Trayvon “slamming” his head into the sidewalk. It is not the scream of someone “nearly unconscious,” as Zimmerman’s brother and father have alleged. And, whether it was Trayvon or Zimmerman screaming, the mere existence of the screams is inconsistent with the verbal exchange between the two as recounted by Zimmerman. No one is yelling “time to die” or “you got me” — they are yelling “help,” and nothing else.

This brings into question Zimmerman’s statement, while being given first aid in the back of the squad car, that “I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.”  First, this slightly contradicts the claims given by both Zimmerman’s father and brother, which is that a more coherent conversation was going on. Second, Zimmerman would have every motivation to make this claim. If it was Trayvon yelling for help, Zimmerman would have known that neighbors in the nearby houses were likely to have heard it. He would have known he would need to explain the existence of the calls for help, and that, if it were known it was Trayvon screaming, it would look very bad for him.

But Zimmerman probably would not have considered the possibility his fight with Trayvon had been recorded in the background of a 911 call — the odds were against someone being that fast on the draw with their phone. So Zimmerman would not have had any reason to think it likely that his claims that it was him yelling for help, and not Trayvon, could be credibly challenged. It seemed like a completely safe — and completely necessary — claim at the time that he made it, but, if proven to be false, that statement could ultimately damn him by showing he was aware that what he had done was wrong and that he needed to lie to protect himself.

Zimmerman was in handcuffs less than 1.5 minutes after he killed Trayvon. In the police surveillance footage of Zimmerman arriving at the police station a half hour after Trayvon was killed, Zimmerman is shown being frisked and lead to an interview room. There is no sign of blood on him, although a possible wound on the upper back portion of his head may exist. Perhaps the oddest part of the surveillance video, however, is that Zimmerman’s shirt is tucked in, there are no visible scuff marks on his clothes, and nothing appears out of place. Zimmerman received cursory medical treatment while sitting in a squad car, hands cuffed behind him. The SFD likely dabbed up some blood, but they certainly didn’t tuck Zimmerman’s shirt in for him.

So, in the 90 seconds between shooting Trayvon and Officer Smith’s arrival on the scene, at which point Zimmerman was immediately handcuffed, did Zimmerman actually bother to nicely tuck his shirt in again? Or did Zimmerman’s shirt manage to stay perfectly tucked in for a one minute period while Zimmerman was punched to the ground and pinned down by someone who was on top of him in a fight?

Neither option is particularly plausible, especially combined with the absence of any blood or plain wounds. Zimmerman’s story is severely lacking in corroborating physical evidence — and if there were still photos taken of Zimmerman to support his claim that he was beaten up, why hasn’t someone leaked them by now? Or the medical records for the ‘broken nose’? The photo of Zimmerman showing blood on his face is not blood from a broken nose, but rather blood from two tiny cuts on the very point of Zimmerman’s nose — likely a result of kickback from Zimmerman firing the weapon, as no blood (or other DNA from Zimmerman) was found anywhere on Trayvon.

It’s likely that Zimmerman did in fact suffer a bump to his head, and maybe his nose, during the initial struggle with Trayvon. Zimmerman did hit the ground at some point, and Trayvon and Zimmerman were wrestling with one another for at least a minute. It’d be surprising if Zimmerman hadn’t picked up a bump or two from the tussle. But nothing about this indicates the injuries were anything but minor. My guess is that Zimmerman, in trying to explain his actions, took whatever reasons he could to claim he was in danger — and thus the bloody nose becomes a broken one in his re-telling, and a grazing would on his head that he got when he fell down becomes someone bashing his head into the sidewalk.


2,131 thoughts on “Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin’s Death

  1. I think Loree and Gadget may have the two arguments down pretty well.

    Prosecution: Zimmerman brought on the confrontation in the first place by leaving his vehicle with a loaded gun and going after an innocent kid.

    Defense: We don’t know what happened during the last moments of Trayvon’s life.

    I think some of those details will be filled in more clearly though. I also think Zimmerman’s statements and his credibility will play a part. And of course so will the character of the jury.

    • Correction:

      Defense: We have a good idea what happened: Martin ran when he saw the white guy sitting in the car on the phone because he was concerned the police had been called. He had been suspended twice from school for drugs and didn’t want to be stopped and question and may have had weed and/or drug paraphernalia on him.

      Martin first ran straight to Brandy’s unit, in case the police had been called by Zimmerman, ditched anything incriminating he might have been carrying, and then he headed back to see if the police had been called. Upon seeing the short fat white guy, who had been staring at him and may have called cops to get him in trouble, was off the phone Martin decided to hurt him. The rest is George’s walk through story.

    • Sounds good to me. The thing is my statement to Jodi Ann applies to Self Defense for either Martin Beating Zimmerman to death or Zimmerman shooting Martin. There is the same problem with the states case either way, I still don’t believe they could reach even probable cause against either one under those circumstances, according to Gilbreath without evidence or witnesses as to who started the fight. I also believe no matter which one survived either Martin or Zimmerman could have a case for Malicious Prosecution against the state afterward using Gilbreath’s statements in the Bond Hearing.

      I want to see the Zimmerman Disclosure, particularly the walk-through video made the next day.

      • Gadget, you seem to be a logical and rational person. Do you think you could put together a idea of what the defense has, how they will present, and what is in their advantage. I know there are a lot of Fl law that give the defense a major advantage. But as of yet all I have heard from the Z camp is a lot of crap about dumb assumptions and not a whole lot about legal analysis. You seem to be a the guy that could really show us al what the prosecution is really up against, because I feel it is too easy for me to sit here and view it from only one side. It would be refreshing to have a honest discussion of this case for the defense side and for all of us to listen, be honest, and help. Just a thought, I know you have put a lot of work in here already.


    • In order for me to make a decent guess I have to see the Zimmerman Discovery. If the state had the proverbial smoking gun in Zimmerman’s statements it would have been in the PC Affidavit, and Det, Glibreath would have been forced to admit it on the stand on 20 Apr. So I doubt there are to many serious inconsistencies, and O’Mara would be an idiot to put Zimmerman on the stand to self destruct. I see him sticking with showing that the state has no evidence/reasonable doubt.

    • @Hap thank you. I enjoy reading your posts and most other comments on this blog. Only a few exceptions, they know who they are. IANAL, but I am very interested in this case. I might not have all the typing or legal jargon down but I have common sense.

  2. The firedoglake (Masoninblue) link from Loree, purporting to be a “DNA” analysis showing what likely happened is silly. It says:

    “No DNA results foreign to Trayvon Martin are found on both lower sleeves suggesting that Trayvon was not beating Zimmerman”

    Huh? I guess that means these hi-def photos taken by the police were all photo-shopped (those “damn” police — always planting evidence like in the O.J. case) and we have the case of the “immaculate” beating that never happened, according to ‘Masoninblue’:

    Here is a link to police pictures of Zimmerman’s injuries.


    His medical report and those pictures show a broken nose, two black eyes, cuts or abrasions on both sides of his forehead, swollen lip, and multiple cuts and abrasions on top of and the back of his head. An expert witness will identify anywhere from 10-20 hits to a solid concrete flat surface from the graphic photos. The limited paramedic report, in light of the actual photos, will have little value.

    But, according to Masoninblue, the above is a mirage! The DNA, according to DNA “expert” Masoninblue, proves there was no fight!

    • I viewed your link PeterO, and those don’t look like black eyes to me. I don’t see a swollen lip either. I see just a few very minor abrasions. on the face and two cuts on the back of the head.

    • HP, here is ABC’s take on the matter. If you trust ABC.

      It mentions the damaged lip. I am puzzled how you can contend there was no fight, if you support masoninblue, or even just one punch (masoninblue seems to deny any contact whatsoever based on his DNA “expertise”). I am sure you realize no jury is going to believe that. You still do not see the black eyes or the damaged lip or the multiple contusions on the face and back of the head or the scrapes on the side of his forehead?

      I am sure the photos will be greatly enlarged at trial for the jury, particularly if there are older jurors, and they will be explained in great detail by a defense expert (certainly not masoninblue!).

  3. jimrtex, you said:

    “There was another witness who thought Martin had long shorts (knee length), and at the 7-11 his pants were sagging exposing a lot of either white T shirt or white underpants. Look at the 7-11 video and notice how bunched up the legs of his pants are. His calves were probably exposed.

    And Mary Cutcher said that Martin was quite light skinned, almost olive skinned. She was probably looking at his tan pants and couldn’t see his lower legs and his white shirt or undershorts probably looked like shorts.”

    Are you saying the pants Martin was wearing at the 7/11 could be or are the same light colored “shorts” he was wearing when shot that was reported by Ofc. Raimondo?

    That is the discrepancy we are looking to resolve. If the pants/shorts are different, then that alone, proves Martin entered Brandy’s unit once he reached it after running.

    • In the 7/11 video, at one point before leaving the counter, Martin pulls his pants up. When he does that they do not look like shorts only normal length pants that he lets slip down low when wearing.

    • There is another witness who said that he thought Martin had long jean shorts. If you look at the 7-11 video, notice how much bunching there is of the pants in the lower leg. I think that they may have just ridden up on his calves.

    • jimrtex,

      Go to the point just before Martin moves from the counter. He pulls his pants all the way up to normal levels and they look like normal length pants at that point I don’t see how they could be shorts — maybe I am missing something but those look like normal length pants that, in terms of length, fit Martin when he has them pulled up to normal height..

      What I am trying to see is if Martin, after he ran and reached Brandy’s unit, went in and either changed to shorts or had shorts on under the pants and took the pants off.

      All I am trying to do is reconcile the report of Ofc. Raimondo where he states Martin was wearing light colored shorts (the ME report says pants). I cannot tell if you are certain the witnesses saw shorts before the fight which would confirm if the pants were changed to shorts. There may be a simple answer shown by the pants or shorts in evidence themselves, but we cannot see them. If you are unsure, that is ok. I am just looking for an answer to resolve the issue since if he was wearing shorts that helps the defense.

    • “Go to the point just before Martin moves from the counter. He pulls his pants all the way up to normal levels and they look like normal length pants at that point I don’t see how they could be shorts”

      But if he were laying on the ground they might sag the other direction. It was pretty consistent that his legs were described as almost appearing to be running. I think one even said one leg was in air (perhaps his weight was on his knees and he fell forward and the knee remained bent). If he were wearing shorts, they would have been to just below the knee. You might judge the length of the legging based on the amount of leg that was exposed, just as dress lengths are based on the amount of leg that is exposed.

    • jimrtex, I am still unclear. Are you saying you think Ofc. Raimondo may have been incorrect and he could have just seen regular length pants (as shown in the 7/11 video) that were hiked up when he said “shorts”? But you are not certain one way or the other?

    • It wasn’t Sgt. Raimondo, but Sgt.Santiago who reported the shorts. The police reports are run together. There is a header stating who was the reporter, and when the report was made; then the report; and finally a box for the signature. The box is at the end of the report.

      Sgt.Raimondo turned Martin over, applied CPR, and he was the one who got the plastic bag and vaseline to make a chest seal. He does not report Martin’s clothing other than when he lifted the “shirt” he felt the juice can.

      Sgt.Santiago is the one who reports the light-colored shorts. It is not clear when he arrived. He does not report any CPR efforts and Zimmerman has been taken to the police station. He also appears to have been acting more in a supervisory role. Most of what he reports, is what other officers were doing and are concerned with the criminal investigation (canvassing the neighborhood, running car tags, getting more police tape, etc.).

      According to a quick google search, it is not important where the arm and leg leads go, as long as they are at the same level (eg on both hips, or on both calves, but not a mix). There may be standards of practice for EMTs, or for the Sanford Fire Department, but I don’t know. In the field, it is probably easier to get to the calves than the hips. If someone is on the ground, you would have to lift their hips to be able to pull the pants down. It is probably easier to lift the pant legs up.

      Once the paramedic declared Martin dead, the SFD officer supervisor declared that it was a crime scene and no longer a medical emergency. Several described “backing out”, which suggests that they avoided touching anything else. Presumably the yellow blanket is to preserve the body until the medical examiner arrives. Maybe the police put it on.

      It was around 60 and raining. It is not likely that shorts of any description would be voluntarily put on. Martin was from Miami. He would be probably be worried about frostbite.

      the ch

    • jimrtex, thanks for the info. So it looks as though the issue is still open, one way or the other.

      We already know from DeeDee’s interview that Martin reached Brandy’s unit after he ran. The next question to resolve is if he actually went into the unit.

      Sources for that information could be a) DeeDee upon cross-examination, b) Chad once deposed, and/or c) a determination he was wearing shorts not the pants in the 7/11 video.

      As for a reason to change to shorts, once we know IF he changed, then the temperature of 60 would indicate that change was not for comfort but instead for freedom of movement if he was thinking about possibly hurting Zimmerman when he went back out.

    • I should have added: or possibly make a quick change to his clothing appearance, in case the man on the phone had called the police.

  4. I read Loree’s link too, and I thought it was pretty fascinating. How could Trayvon have inflicted a whole lot of blows onto a bleeding face, without getting any of Zimmerman’s blood whatsoever on his hands and sleeves?

    If Trayvon hit Zimmerman just once, then that could explain Zimmerman’s broken nose while not leaving any of Zimmerman’s blood on Trayvon. And it could be that Zimmerman fell and hit his head after the blow to the nose. A broken nose can make black eyes.

    I don’t think we know, but It’s possible that the Prosecution may be able to put together a pretty good forensic story repudiating the claim of self-defense.

    • All masonblue does is spout DNA terms and then “conclude” “no fight.” The evidence of a fight is not speculation about DNA but the damage to Zimmerman, as evidenced by his doctor’s report and the pictures. Simple high school geometry tells you that if a sphere (the head) contacts a plane (the cement) there is a single contact point.

      There are many such “contacts” all over Zimmerman’s head. He will have an expert witness who will assert those come from banging on the concrete. Obviously they didn’t appear out of thin air as you appear to imply.

      Which expert will a jury believe? I think it is easy to answer, the one that explains every contact point is likely to have come from bashing Zimmerman’s head on concrete.

      The “DNA” analysis is not any analysis but simply masonblue throwing terms together and then speculating as if he has reached some great scientific conclusion, he is not an forensic expert on such damages.

      If Martin grabbed Zimmerman’s head and bangs it on the concrete enough to bleed the only blood will be on the head at the contact point not on Martin’s hands or clothing.

    • HP said: “I read Loree’s link too, and I thought it was pretty fascinating. How could Trayvon have inflicted a whole lot of blows onto a bleeding face, without getting any of Zimmerman’s blood whatsoever on his hands and sleeves?”

      His face wasn’t bleeding, just the back of his head … after it was repeatedly smashed onto the concrete.

    • in response to broken nose post evidence from his own medical report:

      Scroll down on page to Trayvon Martin Case: Zimmerman Medial Report, watch video and pause at 2:11 it says

      Broken Nose: We discussed that it is likely broken, but does not appear to have septial deviation. The swelling and black eyes are typical of the injury. I recommended that he be evaluated by ENT(ear, nose throat) but he refused.

      Lets see, he refused emergency transport to hsopital that night. He refused to go the hospital three times at police station. (Documented in police reports) He refused his own doctor to see specialist in regards to ENT (ear nose throat). @ Hapufern lets see what PeterO has to say lol. For a person in life and death struggle he sure refuses alot of medical attention!

    • Loree, your comments about how Zimmerman refusing medical aid proves guilt is mistaken. It was to his detriment, both legally and physically to not go to a hospital immediately, no matter how he felt (he felt dizzy among other symptoms). This topic of head injuries, concussions, symptoms and practical treatment were discussed in the following posts:

      May 31, 2012 at 2:30 pm
      PeterO on May 30, 2012 at 9:25 pm
      May 30, 2012 at 9:48 pm

      I am sure you remember the Natasha Richardson case where she died from a fall in the snow when skying. Here is a website that explains the random nature of head injuries and about her death. Zimmerman was stupid not to go to the hospital. MRI’s etc. are not necessarily done for Grade 1 or Grade 2 concussions and are not particularly reliable in those cases


      “First, the actress’ fall had been onto the snow-covered ground. She hadn’t run into a hard upright object, like a tree, a building, or even another skier.

      And second, Richardson had walked away from the accident seemingly unscathed. She was even heard joking about her fall. Not until an hour or so later, when she started having headaches, did the seriousness of the situation become apparent.

      How can that be? How can someone tumble down a beginner’s ski slope, appear fine, and yet within hours be fighting for her life in a hospital’s ICU?

      “Natasha Richardson’s example sadly shows how devastating an innocuous brain injury can be,” says David King, executive director of the Brain Injury Association of Minnesota.”

      single fall where her head hit concrete, a few hours after she told her husband Liam Neeilson

      • I am 65 and due to poverty never saw a doctor or dentist until I entered military service

        Even later, I had no money for medical care so home remedies were common.

    • Loree,

      He said in one of his interviews that he did not know what CFR stood for. (Central Florida Regional Hospital). If there was a possibility of a concussion, the paramedics would probably be more insistence. It would be pretty silly to transport by ambulance for stitches, and once he was in the police car and wasn’t feeling pain he may have just decided to go to the police station.

      There was also some casual discussion of insurance policies with the investigator who was watching him while he was waiting for his stress test to actually begin.

      “refused” is inconsistent with “recommendation”. What did the doctor actually say to Zimmerman? Did he say “You probably ought to see an ENT. Would you like me to call one?”

      The doctor said it was imperative that he see his psychiatrist, and he did.

      Maybe the paramedics and doctors should have pounded it into his head how important it was to get additional treatment.

      • I totally agree that Zimmerman needed to see a PSYCHOLOGIST (not a psychiatrist. . .they don’t help with emotional trauma, they just give psychotropic pills for mental health illnesses).
        But it is OBVIOUS that Zimmerman didn’t need more medical care than what the medic did: wash the blood with Hydrogene Peroxide from his head and his face. The bandaid were a nice touch. . .but really not necessary!

        By the way, I do not see “black eyes!” I’ve seen real black eyes in my life, and those were NOT black eyes! What you see on SOME pictures are merely the natural coloring below the eyes that is so common for people of hispanic origine and people with olive skin.

        Would you care to compare Zimmerman’s “black eyes” with the eyes of most ethnic people with light olive skin?

        By the way, most family doctors have the ability to take simple x-rays in their own offices. . .I wonder why we have not heard about an x-ray of Zimmerman’s “broken” nose?

        Still, a CT scan could detect if and approximately when there was a REAL fracture!

  5. Susan linked the bank records. Those are pretty fascinating too. It appears that Shellie transferred money from George’s account to hers even the day before the bond hearing. Plus there were bills paid on the day of the bond hearing from out of George’s account.

    That pretty much puts to rest for me the notion that maybe Shellie was misinformed about the account just before the bond hearing.

    • There was much made about the Zimmermans paying off “debt,” but a lot of the “debt” was for the expenses after the shooting including borrowings from family and credit cards.

      money being “transferred” means nothing since the issue is whether the money could be used to pay bond.

  6. Zimmerman’s statements are now being released:

    In an initial interview with police just after the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman described a life-and-death struggle that began when the youth “jumped out from the bushes.”

    At the very least, this is an indication that Zimmerman had no idea what was going on, or that he was using vague turns of phrases that he did not intend to be literally true. At most, it shows he was lying to police. Because — what bushes? Here’s where the shooting took place:

    So Trayvon was hiding in those little scraggily bushes that a five year old would have trouble hiding in?

    Not a chance. That makes as much sense as Trayvon running home to change into his “fighting shorts.”

    • Let’s wait to see GZ’s entire walk through first. We already know from the dispatcher tape Zimmerman is not perfect in his ability to describe his surroundings.

      Regarding the “fighting shorts,” the only issue right now is the discrepancy between what Martin is wearing at the 7/11 and what Ofc. Raimondo reported (that he was wearing light colored shorts .Yes, I know an ME clerk (who?) listed ‘pants.’). It is a loose end that, by itself, if true would prove Martin entered Brandy’s apt to change to shorts. After all Tracy reported Trayvon was wearing shorts.

      If it turns out Martin was wearing shorts, that fact would be a major defense plus. Yes, changing to shorts, for their freedom of movement, would be a sign of preparing for a possible fight that the defense, along with the important point that Martin left the “security” of the unit to venture out again looking for Zimmerman. The Zimmerman as “aggressor” story takes a big hit, particularly in the “reasonable doubt” department.

    • I looked at the video briefly, particularly where Zimmerman describes what happened just before he was attacked. HE DOES NOT MENTION “BUSHES” ANYWHERE. And his written statement does not say “bushes.”

      All he says in his video (and he points) is that Martin approached him from the direction further down the North/South path from the South. He says in the video that Martin walked up behind him from that direction that he points to.

      Do you have a link to a SOURCE video or statement by Zimmerman where he says “bushes”?

      Where did the article come up with that Zimmerman says Martin “jumped out from the bushes”??? So far, I haven’t seen that at all and I did view the walk through video and read Zimmerman’s written statement.

      Moreover, even if “bushes” were involved, you can see MANY bushes in the video AND there are screening fences for each unit that Martin could easily have lurked behind before he approached Zimmerman from the South.

      The picture shown above is only from the East/West path, not the key North/South path that Zimmerman points to as where Martin came from in his video.

      In his written statement, all Zimmerman says is that after he turned to go back to his vehicle “the suspect emerged from the darkness.” I haven’t read any direct written statement by a police officer as to what Zimmerman says but have seen the critical walk-through video. No mention of “bushes” at all.

      • Face it, Peter: You’re always the last one to pick up on FACTUAL information, so busy you are at spinning weird “scenarios” to demonize Trayvon and his supporters and to sanctify and “save” Zimmerman’s the shooter!
        You’re so funny!
        I hope that, as you read this, you WILL have found the “bush” reference in Zimmerman’s audio interviews with the police!

    • Correction, the picture Susan posted could also be facing west from the east side of the north/south path running between the rows of buildings. Nothing else changes and the video makes it clear there were many places for Martin to have concealed himself in the darkness, including behind bushes or the dividing screens between each unit along the north/south path.

      However, the real question is where did the report that Zimmerman said Martin jumped out from the bushes” come from??? It looks like just another media “creation” out of thin air.

    • Peter O,

      In his first statement to Doris Singleton, he says that “bushes” the first time around 13:20. At 21:10 he says “out of the darkness”. Singleton says “and you you say there are some bushes that he may have come out of”. Zimmerman say yes (he may have come out of the bushes).

      In the second interview, around 6:28 he says “I don’t recall” where he came from. Singleton asks “but from what you guess he is hiding at this T somewhere in the bushes.”

      In the first Serino interview after midnight on 2/27, around 2:50 Serino asks about when Martin jumped him, and Serino asks “out of the darkness?” So Serino’s impression based on having been at the location, and probably reading Martin’s written statement and going over Singleton’s interviews was that Martin came out of the darkness.

      Singleton appears to have become a bit fixated on “bushes”. There are 40 minutes of video, and 4+ hours at the policed station, so there may have been additional questioning. Singleton at times sounds like she is trying to pin things down from elsewhere.

      So expect Sandbeggar, CSFC, and others to be keep harping about “bushes”.

      There is one piece of evidence that I have never seen discussed. It might be incidental, or maybe not.

    • jimrtex, incidentally, the human mind works by “filling in details” that may not have actually been seen. For example, Zimmerman, turning around to suddenly see Martin after Martin says something to him, based on time and place, could in his mind have him assume Martin came from the bushes or the side screens for each porch but may not have really seen that. That is the nature of witnesses and memory. Just look at the variations from the other witnesses interviewed. Some of them may even be completely convinced about seeing events they never could have seen, yet they are not murderers (Mary Cutcher comes to mind).

  7. Peter O. . .still delusional!
    Martin’s face was “being bashed it, ” remember? He had a “broken nose” that was BLEEDING?
    And all those “major injuries” to his nose, his forehead, his lip that you see on the latest pictures released (you know. . .the close up pictures that are suppose to prove the severity of his injuries?).

    How could Martin have inflicted all those facial “injuries,” and not have any trace of Zimmerman’s DNA on his hands or on his sleeves?

    And re: the money transfers. . .Obviously Shellie and Zimmerman felt perfectly confident that the paypal account money was THEIRS to use as they pleased. . .they sure were not shy about using it, if you consider that out of the $204,000 donated to the paypal account, only $122,300 was transferred to the LEGAL trust established by O’Mara!

    Why do you insist in trying to spin everything and make stupid arguments that have NO ground! You are actually doing a disservice to Zimmerman’s cause by spewing all those idiocies!

  8. you said: “Martin’s face was “being bashed it, ” remember? He had a “broken nose” that was BLEEDING?
    And all those “major injuries” to his nose, his forehead, his lip that you see on the latest pictures released (you know. . .the close up pictures that are suppose to prove the severity of his injuries?).
    How could Martin have inflicted all those facial “injuries,” and not have any trace of Zimmerman’s DNA on his hands or on his sleeves?”

    Assuming a jury believes he had those injuries (which I don’t doubt for a second), and the photos show Zimmerman was definitely bleeding (at least on the back of the head). Then the story that all Martin was doing was ‘grappling’ with Zimmerman and the fact that we know they were rolling on the ground and therefore in close physical contact, then it is MORE LIKELY IN A WRESTLING TYPE FIGHT THAT BLOOD WAS TRANSFERRED TO MARTIN than in a more fight involving “arms length” punching or banging of Zimmerman’s head on concrete. We are not taking about the type of damage that results in splashing blood … and even in that case, grabbing and wrestling would transfer more blood then punching, including to the hands.

    Why don’t you just argue your case. Your constant throwing out insulting comments doesn’t help your case, and BTW those comments are just laughably silly.

  9. Well as I predicted, I have just done a preliminary study of Z statements and video walk through and he has hung himself. Not one thing he said is possible in the realm of the physical evidence. His entire story is a lie. This is the only chance he had at a defense and now the jury is just going to see him as a lying ass and then what, how does MOM claim self defense for his client when everything Z stated in his interviews was a PROVABLE lie? Good luck spinning this now guys.

    With this new evidence and the chief getting fired I am wondering if we will see a plea on the 29th. I just don’t see how a lawyer of MOM stature would be willing to walk into a minefield like this. But we will see.

    • This is just a follow up to a lie that I posted before.

      Just wanted to point out another lie. The ME said both his lungs were perforated by fragments instantaneously collapsing both lungs. A quote from another blog;

      “Both of Trayvon Martin’s lungs were collapsed by the gunshot. This is according to the autopsy report. Both lungs were also pierced by jacket fragments or the bullet core. This would immediately prevent the pressure necessary to generate sound. It’s a no brainer.”


      But Z’s story states that he said this after he shot him.

      “The suspect got back allowing me to sit up and said “you got me.”

      If Z is to stick to his story that TM absolutely said this, the only way that is trure is if he said it before Z shot him. That implies that TM surrendered to Z before he got shot. Not self defense.


      Z is lying.

      Both of these are BAD!

      • PeterO, I really don’t know why I am responding to you. But can you explain how TM body was found more that 30 yards from where Z said it was in the walk through?

        Can you explain the missing time?

        Can you explain how TM lungs were collapsed but yet he still managed to talk?

        Can you explain how the screams herd on the 911 call don’t match with his story?

        Can you explain the inconstant blood and DNA evidence?

        Can you explain the “circling” of his truck statements?

        Can you basically explain why NONE of the psychical evidence seems to match with the story he told? WITHOUT MAKING STUFF UP OUT OF THINE AIR?

        Remember that this is the ONLY story they are allowed to tell in court. They do not get to change their story and say the the fight took place 40 yards from were he originally stated. They are screwed. A jury is going to see straight through this and convict. And if they do say that the fight took place were they found the body, then that makes Z story of walking back to his truck a lie. Or that he chased Z to that point. No matter how you tell the story Z is either lying or he is chasing, guilty either way dude. Sorry.

    • Sandbagger,

      “But can you explain how TM body was found more that 30 yards from where Z said it was in the walk through?”

      This is false. Get yourself a google image of the area. Mark where you “think” the body was found. Mark where you think Zimmerman said it was.

      “Can you explain the missing time?”

      What do you mean by the missing time? I can’t explain your misunderstanding, unless you express your self more clearly.

      “Can you explain how TM lungs were collapsed but yet he still managed to talk?”

      How long does it take for the lungs to collapse? I posted the FBI study that explained that the brain has enough oxygen for 15 seconds after the heart is torn apart to continue voluntary actions. Presumably this would also pertain to involuntary actions such as breathing. Only the lower lobe of one lung was hit.

      “Can you explain how the screams herd on the 911 call don’t match with his story?”

      Explain why it is your belief that they are inconsistent?

      “Can you explain the inconstant blood and DNA evidence?”

      Do you mean inconsistent? Explain why it is your belief that blood and DNA evidence are insonsistent.

      “Can you explain the “circling” of his truck statements?”


      “Can you basically explain why NONE of the psychical evidence seems to match with the story he told? WITHOUT MAKING STUFF UP OUT OF THINE AIR?”

      I was not aware of any psychical evidence. Do you mean physical evidence?
      Many persons (and you may be in this class) have biases so severe that no amount of explanation would help them out.

      • Sorry, this is the 3rd time I have done this today.

        “”But can you explain how TM body was found more that 30 yards from where Z said it was in the walk through?”

        Should have said “30 feet” Sorry for that.

        I do not think anyone refutes this. If you wish to you may, and you can link to photos of it being exactly where GZ said it was.

        “Can you explain the missing time?”

        The time between GZ getting off the phone with 911 and the first confrontation happening.

        “Can you explain how TM lungs were collapsed but yet he still managed to talk?”

        “Both of Trayvon Martin’s lungs were collapsed by the gunshot. This is according to the autopsy report. Both lungs were also pierced by jacket fragments or the bullet core. This would immediately prevent the pressure necessary to generate sound.”

        “Can you explain how the screams herd on the 911 call don’t match with his story?” Explain why it is your belief that they are inconsistent?

        How can you have your mouth and nose covered and still be screening, at the very least it would be muffled. Inconsistent much? hey, I am just taking poor GZ for his word.

        “Can you explain the inconstant blood and DNA evidence?”

        Just for starters there is no DNA on TM hands from covering GZ mouth. Inconsistent much? hey, I am just taking poor GZ for his word.

        “Many persons (and you may be in this class) have biases so severe that no amount of explanation would help them out.”….. You should try saying this in the mirror. lol 🙂 … I think we are all guilty of this to some point.

        Even though I am looking at the evidence and “seeing” that I feel it is leaning towards GZ guilt. I have not made my mind up. There are countless people out there who have made very strong arguments for GZ innocence, Talkleft is one that comes to mind. Both sides seem to try and explain away stuff. I am sure that I am guilty of it at some point too. however, I do not pretend like you seem to be doing that your defense of GZ is flawless jimrtex.


      • Jimrtex. I just spend almost three hours listening to ALL the recorded interviews (from the 1st one with Detective Singleton, to the last one with Serino and (I believe) Singleton.

        There are MANY discrepancies between the recorded interviews (from 2/26 and 2/29) and ALSO with the “walk through” on 2/27.

        Peter O asked earlier where the “bush” story came from. . .that it was never mentionned!
        Well, Zimmerman stated THREE TIMES to detective Singleton on 2/26 that Trayvon jumped out of the bushes to attack him.

        But then, on 2/29, he stated that Trayvon “came out of the dark” when Z was going back to his truck on the “dog walk” or “T junction” between the two streets. and asked him “what’s your problem, Homie” jjust as Z was passing the “walk through.” As per Z’s statement, he just answer I don’t have a problem” and started looking for his phone (which he had just hung up from talking to the dispatcher. . .but he was no longer holding???? That is the moment that “T punched him in the nose, and he fell back and hit his head, then T jumped on him, pinning him down and started punching him in the face and smashing his head in concrete!

        However. . . just a few minutes later in the February 26, Part 3 interview, Serino asked him if T called him “Homie,” And Z “couldn’t remember!”

        Please note also that, in that interview, he stated that he NEVER went into the walk through, but remain on the T junction from the street where his car was parked, to the other street where he reportedly went to “see the name of the street”. . .which HAPPENS TO BE THE STREET HE LIVES ON! However, it is clear that in the “walk through” on February 27, he shows that he was on the T junction, but then shows that he got “pinned” by T about 15 feet INSIDE the walk through between the townhouses, in the back of the CORNER TOWNHOUSE, NOT on the T junction. . .and, if you want to look at the pictures of where Trayvon’s body was found (with Zimmerman straddling him and pinning the dead kids’ hands on both sides of the body) it is even FURTHER inside the walk through between the townhouses, In fact, it is more behind the THIRD townhouse. . .NOT the corner one, and NOT the T Junction.

        When Serino asked Z why he stood on the T junction, in the rain, while talking on the phone and even after he hung up. . .Z states that “it was dark, and I didn’t want to walk in the dark, so I stayed near where there was a small light” HOWEVER, earlier in that same interview (Feb, 26, part 3), Zimmerman stated that he “had left the headllights on, facing toward the T junction and that the headlights were lighting up a good part of the T junction!. . .Why didn’t he walk toward those lights?

        When asked how far away Trayvon was from the SUV when he “circled” the SUV. . . supposedly scaring Zimmerman. . .Zimmerman answered “about a car’s length!” I do not believe that, the kid on his way home, was “CIRCLING IN A THREATENING WAY” the SUV if he stayed a car length away when he passed by the SUV!

        Serino brought up the same questions I asked: Why would anyone who has lived in a community (and is the neighborhood watch captain) that includes only THREE STREETS, need to get out of his car to “check the name of the street.” Zimmerman answered. . .”because I don’t have a good memory. . .I am ADD.” Serino asked him when he was diagnosed, and Zimmerman answered: ” in childhood,” and that he is taking Alldal, 25 mg 2X a day.

        Zimmerman explained that he couldn’t push Trayvon away. . .not even Trayvon’s “hand on his mouth and nose, smothering and suffocating him,” but he also stated that when he thought Trayvon reached for his gun he “gain control of Trayvon’s wrist (the one reportedly going for his gun), and HE grab his gun instead and shot Trayvon.

        Trayvon then “sat up and said “you got me, you got it” then fell back (he doesn’t remember if he pushed him or if he fell), and Z jumped up and jumped on Trayvon’s back and pinned both of his hands to his side AND TRAYVON WAS STILL TALKING! (which is quite a feat with a bullet in throught the lung and lodged in his heart!

        Another that came to my mind (because of the very interesting questions asked by Serino) is. . .why would Zimmerman have been scared of a skinny, tall teenager. . .but stated that his 2005 charge for violence against an officer was due to the fact that he tried to defend one of his friend who was pinned against a wall by this BIG, BULKY guy who, when Z, tried to interfere, grabbed Zimmerman’s shirt. . .and ZIMMERMAN didn’t hesitate to GRAB HIM BACK and push him! (it happened to be an undercover officer).

        By the way, earlier our dear Peter the defender claimed that it was normal that Trayvon didn’t have any traces of blood or any DNA from George on his hands or on the lower part of his sleeves. . . .because “George was not bleeding from the face, but from the back of his head.” Well. . .apparently (as we all already knew. . .except for Peter), “the medics used peroxyde on my head and on my face to get the blood off”. . .he told Serino!
        How could Trayvon NOT HAVE any blood or traces of George’s DNA on his hands when he was “being suffocated by Trayvon’s hands pressed against his . . .bleeding. . .nose and mouth?”

        In the 2/26 audio (part 1) of his interview with Singleton, Zimmerman says that “Trayvon came out of the bushes (and he describes the bushes in Part 2 of the interview) and that HE FELT DOWN ON THE GRASS!. . .he ONLY mentions the concrete later. . .as an after thought when he says that Trayvon was repeatedly smashing his head in concrete.

        Zimmerman ALSO contradicted the statement about Trayvon’s age that he made at the bond hearing (when he said he thought Trayvon was just a few years younger than him, instead of the “late teens” he reported to the dispatcher ( a comment that many of the Zimmerman’s defenders explained as being more accurate once he was being beaten by the kid!). On the night (at 12:05 am on 2/26 in part 1 of the interview with Singleton), Zimmerman is asked how old he thought the “suspicious person” was. . .and he answered: late teens, early 20’s!

        Serino in part 3 of the 2/29 interview also asked some pointed questions, such as:
        What made [Trayvon] look suspicious?
        Z: “he was just looking around in the rain, looking at the house where there had been a burglary weeks ago as he was walking by.
        What made you say to the dispatcher “he is on drug or something?”
        Again. . .Z answered. . .”he was just looking around!”

        Very convincing reasons to suspect someone. . .obviously!

        I suggest you go and listen to ALL those interviews yourself. . .when you have time, and take notes!

        By the way, did you notice a couple of “weird” (and maybe very telling) things in Z’s walk through of 2/27 that was released today?
        At one point, when he starts to describe how Trayvon press his hand on Z’s mouth and nose and was suffocating him. . .Zimmerman made a “Freudian slip,” he actually said (before he corrected himself) I PUT my hand. . . .

        Another “funny” moment is when he gestured to show how his shirt was raised and revealed his gun. . .he then motionned to show how he grabbed his gun out of the holster in his waistband. . .WHILE HE WAS LYING FLAT ON HIS BACK. . .and it was clear that he carries his gun not to the front of his pants, not even to the SIDE, but to the BACK OF HIS HIP!
        Wouldn’t that make it harder for Trayvon to “see the gun” while he is “smashing Z’s head in concrete, AND holding his hand over Z’s mouth and nose” and, then, while still continuing the “smashing of the head” and the “suffocating of the mouth and nose,” Trayvon manages to slide his hand (right hand, mind you, since Trayvon was right handed!) to the back of Zimmerman’s RIGHT HIP (which is obviously on the opposite side to Trayvon’s right hand!), while Zimmerman is STILL pinned flat on the ground!

        I am sure that you and your friend Peter will find spins for these.

        But I must say that it was heart warming to hear both Serino and Singleton having EXACTLY the same questions as many of us have had, and listening to Zimmerman lose ground and babble to try to explain those “discrepancies!”

        Have fun!

    • Where does the ME report say that both lungs were instantaneously collapsed?

      Page 130: Partial collapse of lungs.
      Page 128: Lungs are collapsed (at least at the time of the autopsy at 10:30 the next morning)

    • ““”But can you explain how TM body was found more that 30 yards from where Z said it was in the walk through?”
      Should have said “30 feet” Sorry for that.”

      ***O’Mara will explain it perfectly. Obviously, the body ended up where it ended up. If, and I say “if,” Zimmerman got a detail such as where the fight started slightly wrong or missed one too many rolls, it doesn’t mean much except that he didn’t have a perfect memory at a time of extreme panic when he was fearing for his life — indeed, imperfect memory supports his claim of being in complete fear and panic.

      ““Can you explain the inconstant blood and DNA evidence?”
      Just for starters there is no DNA on TM hands from covering GZ mouth. Inconsistent much? hey, I am just taking poor GZ for his word. ”

      ***look for my post at: June 21, 2012 at 2:07 pm
      He would have MORE blood on his clothes if he was only wrestling with Zimmerman than punching him and repeatedly banging his head on concrete.

      ““Can you explain how the screams herd on the 911 call don’t match with his story?” Explain why it is your belief that they are inconsistent?
      How can you have your mouth and nose covered and still be screening, at the very least it would be muffled. Inconsistent much? hey, I am just taking poor GZ for his word.”

      ***Martin’s alternation between partial covering Zimmerman’s face, repeated punching and banging of the head on concrete provides plenty of time to scream as Zimmerman did.

    • Sandbagger,

      It is about 20 feet. The body was just to the east of John’s patio, which is the 2nd one. In the 2/26 interview with Singleton, Zimmerman mentions that he saw a person (John) and wanted him to come help, but to no avail.

      In the 2/27 walk through, he points over toward John’s patio, but he is actually too far north. If John were on the patio, the wing wall which is just north (within about a foot) of John’s patio would block the view of where he was at in the walk through.

      Zimmerman likely does not know exactly how the fight moved 45 feet south from from the east-west sidewalk. And he remembers after getting up that he went north toward the T where he was arrested. He just can’t put the exact position together. He knows where Martin attacked, and he knows he ended up somewhat south of the T, and that John saw him.

      The first 911 caller lives in the end unit. They have a screened porch, so the patio door was open, but the screens had blinds, so they could not see out. So they could hear very well but not see anything, but report the sound moving south.

      I suspect the concrete was actually one of the concrete drains, rather than the sidewalk. The valley between the units is not on the sidewalk, but to the west.

      20 feet is really insignificant.
      “The time between GZ getting off the phone with 911 and the first confrontation happening.”

      Maybe Serino’s time line is correct? I had assumed that it was somehow fouled up, and that the call was at 7:09:34, with the first event logged at 7:11:12. But Serino’s time line shows Zimmerman’s call at 7:11:12, but that would require a really stupid time stamping system. But sometimes that really don’t make sense actually happening. I had originally though Twin Trees was the “cut through”, but then was convinced that it was actually the east-west walk. But it appears that Twin Trees is the cut through.

      I don’t think Zimmerman remembers the actual sequence. He may have had a concussion or some similar effect.
      =============================================================”Both of Trayvon Martin’s lungs were collapsed by the gunshot. This is according to the autopsy report. Both lungs were also pierced by jacket fragments or the bullet core. This would immediately prevent the pressure necessary to generate sound.”

      See Page 127 of 183. Two fragments of jacket through right lung, and one fragment of core through right ventricle. I don’t see where you are seeing anything about instantaneous collapse of the lungs. Wasn’t this caused by flooding of the pleural cavities. I found one reference that says about 73 ml per beat. There was 1300 ml of blood in one pleural cavity and 1000 ml in the other. That to me would suggest some seconds before lung collapse.

      Where did you see anything about fragments piercing both lungs.
      “How can you have your mouth and nose covered and still be screening, at the very least it would be muffled. Inconsistent much? ”

      It is not constant. We don’t know how much recording equipment boosted it.
      “Just for starters there is no DNA on TM hands from covering GZ mouth.”

      Are fingernail scraping and hands the same?

  10. More Crump lying.

    In his interview, given in response to the released Zimmerman statement and videos, he says the dispatcher told Zimmerman to not “PURSUE” Martin. As I pointed out in a previous post, the word “pursue” is a word that implies “to follow in order to overtake, capture, kill, etc.”

    That word usage (of “pursue”) is a lot different from the word “follow” used as in to “follow” for purposes of again trying to get the suspect in sight (to report to the dispatcher) or to see an address to report to the dispatcher … or a combination of the two.

    No wonder Crump keeps lying by falsely saying the dispatcher used the word “pursue” — to falsely imply the dispatcher believed Zimmerman was out to “to overtake, capture, kill, etc.” Martin (when the dispatcher was only trying to protect Zimmerman from a fleeing suspect).

    As we all know from the tape itself, all the dispatcher says is “are you following him.” So he did not say “pursue” as Crump says.

  11. I posted the following on the link unitron mentions above. The nit-pickers can have a field day at that link, but end up being very surprised how the defense handles it all at trial:

    In science it is recognized there is a big difference between the words “precision” and “accuracy,” because the former can never make up for conditions where the latter may have large variation.

    Apparently that key distinction is not recognized in legal blogs.

    The problem is that Zimmerman never expected the events, as they were unfolding, to be of such importance that he had to concentrate on every detail and remember it exactly. So, to “catch” him for murder, because his statement is not as “precise” as someone (antagonistic to him) may “like,” does not mean too much in the normal give and take of variances an honest witness can have in real life.

    Here is a key part of Zimmerman’s statement:

    “The suspect once again disappeared between the back of some houses. The dispatch once again asked for my exact location. I could not remember the name of the street so I got out of my car to look for a street sign. The dispatch asked me for a description and the direction the suspect went. I told the dispatch I did not know but I was out of my vehicle looking for a street sign & the direction the suspect went. The dispatch told me not to follow the suspect & that an officer was in route. As I headed back to my vehicle the suspect emerged from the darkness and said “you got a problem” I said “no” the suspect said “you do now”.”

    So he does remember a jumble of events that occurred around the same time (that is the way the human mind operates) that when all pieced together, fits most if not all of the dispatcher tape. Indeed, expecting him to remember with 100% accuracy is not reasonable — and there are innumerable studies on human memory and witness that would back up that conclusion. We have the exact tape and, obviously Zimmerman is not expected to have a tape recorder in his mind.

    For example, he says in the statement: “I could not remember the name of the street so I got out of my car to look for a street sign. The dispatch asked me for a description and the direction the suspect went. I told the dispatch I did not know but I was out of my vehicle looking for a street sign & the direction the suspect went.”

    So all he says above, is consistent with the goals of: a) following (after leaving his car) to try to keep the suspect, who disappeared, in sight; b) getting an exact street address that could be usable by the police; and c) giving a visual description of the direction the suspect went that would also be usable by the police when they arrived. I see no problems whatsoever with that testimony.

    Nit-picking for “precision” to convict for murder in an environment when Zimmerman is to be lauded for how good he did remember such traumatic events after the fact is not justified. Zimmerman got a 90 grade on his memory, not a failing grade convicting him of murder.

    • A big thing to keep in mind is that in the Casey Anthony case, the jury found her guilty of lying to the police BUT NOT of murder.

      In Casey’s case is was very clear she lied. Not like the ‘nit-picking’ nonsense here that is based on distorted media reports (such as the media falsely reporting that Zimmerman said Martin “jumped out from the bushes.”), Crump fictions (such as him saying the dispatcher instructed Zimmerman to not “pursue” Martin) and unrealistic interpretations on how witness memory works in real life.

    • @Wayne –

      “What am I missing?”

      About 30-ft. The location of the fight took place further down the path, not where George Zimmerman claims it did in pic 2. Wrong location. Story is unbelievable.

  12. Well, no inconsistencies – yes because zimmerman is CONSISTENT IN HIS LIES. The inconsistencies are when you compare these statements with the physical and known evidence such as the 911 tapes. So I will help you both out a bit…

    Disparaging statements/info:

    Context – this was zimmerman’s statement one day AFTER the murder (I mean killing)

    1. He is claiming he never moved away from the T area at any time. This is INCONSITENT with the 911 timeline unless he adds that he decided to stand there for 2 minutes.

    2. zimmerman claims he got out of his car in order to answer the question of where the dispatch should meet him. The 911 call clearly shows that the dispatch did not ask for any address, Zimmerman got out after exclaiming: “shit! He ran.”

    3. zimmerman points towards where the detective is standing on the sidewalk when describing where TM approached him. Then stating that he punched him knocking him down (based on where Zimmerman is standing, he would have fallen “backwards” away from the sidewalk into the grass.) Either he is dyslexic and the two were in the reverse position, or he is fabricating information.

    4. zimmerman states that TM disappeared then came back and circled his truck WHILE he is still on the phone with dispatch. Yet, this ‘circling” is never mentioned during the 911 tape. This is a ridiculous assertion!

    5. Lastly, the final resting place of TM’s body is far south of the “T” area. Zimmerman never bothers explaining how they both ended up there.

    • Exactly! Zimmerman’s account is false. He has, however, now confirmed that he stalked the child by car and on foot before killing him.

    • I really don’t want you to leave, Sanbagger! You are a real asset to our discussions.
      Keep in touch and check in sometime, will you? You know where to find me (on facebook!)
      I hope you are leaving us for a more pleasant passtime!

    • Hey sandbagger, I don’t blame you for feeling that way, but I hope you get a chance to take a nice break and then come back! Whatever the case, we enjoyed your company. Take care

  13. I just watched the one video that started with the police officer in the car and then had Zimmerman walking around. Wow, EVERYTHING is inconsistent with the call to the dispatcher. And he had to go to the next street over to find a street address? It doesn’t even make any sense.

    In my opinion, this guy lies like a rug. He’s toast. TOAST.

    • You didn’t listen to the dispatcher tape where the dispatcher asks for the address where he is parked and Zimmerman says he doesn’t know it because it is a “cut-through.” So the tape documents Zimmerman didn’t know the street name and it supports him in saying he walked to see a street sign so he could tell the arriving police when they called him upon arrival.

      No inconsistency there.

      And any minor inconsistencies are as innocuous as what is on the dispatcher tape.

      • So, you really believe that Zimmerman FORGOT THE NAME OF HIS OWN STREET? Because, that is the street (at the opposite end of the T junction from where his car was parked!) Zimmerman said he went to find the name!
        And, didn’t you notice that, if he wanted a HOUSE NUMBER, his truck was parked in front of the T junction, and the very FIRST house to the right of that end of the TJunction has a very clear number FACING ZIMMERMAN’s truck!

        • I’m really supposed to be over on the other thread but mis-statements of fact just bug me no end.

          Zimmerman’s own street was Retreat View Circle.

          The street the name of which he said he couldn’t remember was Twin Trees Lane.


          • Then, why would you think he left his car, parked on the street of which he “forgot the name,” to walk across to the opposite end of the T junction. . .to HIS OWN street. . .to find the name of the street where he had just left his car?

            That makes a LOT MORE SENSE!

            Thank you for pointing that out! LOL!

  14. I think I saw it the same way as Danielle. It seemed like Zimmerman said he left his truck (which was parked on Twin Trees) to find a street address, which is why he said he walked from his truck over to Retreat View Circle

    I’ll try to look at it again in an hour or so and hopefully have better reception.

    Unitron, what other thread are you going to?


  15. I am about to run the walk-through alongside the Zimmerman Call audio, the 911 calls, and Google Earth to see if I can match them all up. Then go back and compare to them to the witness statements made later, in the case of DD weeks later. From what I just saw of the Lie Detector interview their focus at that time was on who started the fight too.

    Is there any piece of major evidence that we do not have available in one form or another?

  16. Zimmerman organized a Neighborhood Watch by his own admission. This explains why TM could not make his destination. Zimmerman story has holes for if he told the whole truth it would expose he had help. A neighborhood watch is not just one person, (a captain to whom?) They corralled him, why are you following was not asked to GZ but to another of the night watch group. What are you doing around here question is being asked just before GZ arrives with gun in hand tries to restrain TM from the rear. This encounter being wet and slippery causes GZ and TM to fall with the weight TM on top. GZ receiving an incidental headbutt to the nose and a head banging to the edge of the sidewalk. TM was able to maintain the top position and see the gun in GZ hand began to scream for help while trying to control GZ. TM losing that battle both parties end up face to face on their knees when a shot was fired. The bullet casing bounces off the the assistant and hits GZ. Knowing the police is on the way the assistant leave the scene for the assistant never intended a shooting and is now aiding in others ways hoping GZ get off is so their roles will never be discovered. White tee shirt, flashlights and pictures of a head wound before the arrival of SPD. It is more than one person or persons involved in Neighborhood Watch Programs and a good one would definally have communication between themselves.

    • Very interesting. I was starting to suspect that he might have had help too. I did hear something about someone else’s DNA on the gun besides George.
      I don’t know though. Only two voices were heard. It’s possible the other person remained quite through out the whole ordeal. For right now, I[m just going to stick with George and way and see if he implicates the other person. I doubt that he would though.

  17. I just so happened stumble across a very pro Zimmerman blog yesterday. I was up to early hours of the morning defending Trayvon. I was waiting like crazy for reinforcements. Even went looking for someone, anyone to come to my rescue (LOL) My intentions were get up early this morning and go back at it but I wanted to arm myself with more information before going back to war. I will leave you guys the link to the blog and hopefully this time someones comes to the rescue. One thing I wasn’t sure about is that Mary claims that the fight broke out five doors down. She and her housemate say that there was no fighting where the shot went off. I t was my intentions to verify this but I got side tracked by all the information I was coming across in this blog. Great job Susan!!!
    I will also leave you guys with a copy of what got all of the Zimmerman supporter riled up.

    This is the link:

    If anyone has a response to my question or wants to join me let me know.

    This is what got everyone all riled up:

    If George repeatedly got his head banged against the sidewalk, why there are only two minor cuts that didn´t even need stitches. What about all of the other repeated bangs to the back of the head? They didn´t leave a mark?

    Why what George says he told 911 in his reenactment video not match what most of have heard on the 911 tape ?
    He says he called 911 and while on hold he pulls into the driveway. Then when asked if that´s where he got out of the car, he says no, that´s where he stopped to call 911. (Contradiction #1)

    He says that he told 911 that Martin was circling his car. Did you hear him say that on the 911 call?
    (Contradiction #2)

    At that point he says he got out of his car to find an exact address because 911 was insistent about getting an exact address. But on the 911 tapes we hear him getting out of his car right after he tells 911 that Martin was running. You can the tones that that his car makes when a door open. He begins to purse Martin and is told not to(Contradiction #3)

    According to George, Martin had a change of heart about wanting to get away from him and wants to engage him. According to George, George still hasn´t identified himself Martin asks if he has a problem and punches him in the nose. But one witness says that she heard two men arguing outside before the scuffle. (Contradiction #4)

    The number of times George describes the repeated blows don´t match the number of marks on the back of his head or on Martin´s hands. (Contradiction #5)

    George says, that he shot Martin “point blank” in the chest but a witness by the name of Mary, says that there was no fighting when the gun went off, that the fight broke out five doors down. (Contradiction #6)

    George says that after he shot Martin point blank in the chest, Martin sat up (like Jason in Friday 13th I suppose) and says “OK OK you got me” But the bullet shattered Martin´s left ventricle and his lung collapsed due to the shot. (Contradiction #7)

    George says that after the shot Martin , he still needed to be restrained and in fact when witness #13 passed by, he asked him to help restrain Martin. As if Martin needed two grown men on top of him at this point. Witness #13 confirms no such lie. Plus three witnesses say that before witness #13 came by they saw George pacing back and forth to the body (Contradiction #8)

    George tells Martin´s parents in court that he thought Martin was just a little younger than he, but George is 28 and he told 911 dispatch that Martin appeared to be in his late teens (Contradiction #9)

    Why so many lies and contradictions if thing happened just as George said they did ? What does he have to hide

    • Mary Cutcher says in one of her interviews with Serino that she had heard from other persons that the fight had started further north. She thought there were two shots. She also suggested that Serino interview another neighbor. She says that she believes in her heart that Zimmerman intended for Martin to die.

      Unlike three other neighbors on her side of the courtyard she neither heard or saw John. She says she did not hear screams for help – but they are clearly audible on the 911 call. If you can’t hear the screaming, how could you hear any sounds of fighting?

      She would make as good a witness as Sadanie or Jodi Ann or Loree or Ricky Jimenez or Peter O.

      A test firing was done on the shirts worn by Martin, which found fiber damage consistent with a contact shot.

      FBI says that the only perfect instantaneous kill shot is one to the head or neck that severs the spinal cord, and that there is sufficient oxygen in the brain for independent movement for 15 seconds after the heart stops functioning. The autopsy says that the bullet penetrated the right ventricle – where do you get the left ventricle?

      Witness 13 never “passed by”. Witness #13 was never asked whether Zimmerman had asked for help. Witness #13 took a picture of Martin’s body, which he never mentioned except when he ran to get them at the end of the FDLE interview. He is possibly the Asian guy who brought the plastic bag to form a chest seal, and the person who was told to skedaddle as evidence was being gathered.

  18. It is quite obvious that GZ had many opportunities to leave TM alone, and well could have,
    As it seems TM was not breaking any laws, but only talking on cellphone to girlfriend after
    Seeking shelter under an awning from the rain. Appears as if GZ was seeking TM out for
    One purpose only…to intimidate the boy enough to provoke an altercation which GZ quite
    Probably hoped would end in GZ coming out looking like a hero. Well…unfortunately, GZ
    Hero complex resulted in the death of an innocent human being.

    Shame on you, GZ!


  19. btw… Trayvon got what he had coming. Kid was a lil punk ass thug, adn it showed in every online presence he had. There’s not a shred of evidence to show that Zimmerman was the kind to break the law… quite to the contrary. It doesnt take a genius to surmise what really happened here. The world is better with Trayvon dead. Let’s just hope this kind of thing happens more often.

  20. Zimmerman brought about any of his alleged injuries when he decided to ‘run’ after Trayvon. Zimmerman already had in his mind before he ‘ran’ after Trayvon that Trayvon was ‘suspicious’, ‘up to no good’ and ‘had his hands in his waistband’ but despite believing all of that, he gets out of his truck, and over the advice of the dispatcher, proceeds to ‘run’ after Trayvon.Under those circumstances, Zimmerman could never hope to claim self-defense when, after all, he placed himself into the circumstances that led to any of his purported injuries. Nobody told him to go ‘running’ after Trayvon, he chose to do that at his own free-will and at his own risk, and he can not now complain that he was in fear for his life when he claimed to have been ‘attacked’ by the very person that he ‘ran’ behind. That doesn’t make sense at all. It would be fool-hearted to suggest that Zimmerman should be entitled to self-defense when he knowingly and willfully took the assumption of risk, Volenti Non Fit Injuria when he chose to ‘run’ behind Trayvon.

    Similarily, if a person crosses a barrier into a leopard cage to retrieve a smouldering cigarette gets mauled by the leopard, under the law, he would be prevented from suing based on the volenti maxim doctrine.

    Assumption of Risk, Volenti Non Fit Injuria or Volentix Maxim are legal doctrines that bar Zimmerman from claiming self-defense under the circumstances that led to him shooting and killing Trayvon Martin.

  21. Pingback: New George ZImmerman Photo

  22. so, susan, did you ever realize that there was evidence to support zs claim martin returned to the spot he ran from 2+mins earlier? zs keys, martins 711 bag zs flashlight all show martin returned like z claims. another good question is, why didnt martin go home when he lost z for 2+mins, he knew he lost z according to dds statement, but after losing z for 2+mins and martin knowing he lost z, still did not go home.it was dark and raining, martin lost z for more than enough time to get away from him. martin caused his own death by attacking z.

    • All that stuff (not to mention his dead body) showed he was there, but none of it indicates whether or not he was there, left, and then returned, or whether he was there the whole time, and we don’t know if Martin stuck first or if he struck back because Zimmerman grabbed him.


        • Did you read the post to which I was replying?

          I was pointing out that it “over-assumed” the meaning of certain evidence.

          That’s not the same as taking sides.

          Except for taking the side of trying to figure out what really happened in an impartial manner.


  23. The state’s witness list includes 2 technicians from Cellebrite. They have everything off both phones. GPS monitoring within 10 feet of both Zimmerman’s and Martin’s movements. Zimmerman’s account(s) of his movements around the complex will be seriously challenged by the GPS monitoring. He was chasing that kid and when he caught up to him he attempted to detain him until police arrived. Martin did not want to be illegally detained and a fight ensued.

    • Where’d you get the information about the Cellebrite technicians from? Don’t remember seeing that.

      But it looks like Cellebrite’s a forensic recovery firm. My guess is that they’d be called to retrieve deleted text messages or recorded media, not GPS data… Don’t think you’d need a forensic data recovery firm to get that information.

  24. I have read so many reports it is enough to make your head spin. My issue is, no gsr except for one particle on back of sleeve as well as No martin DNA on the gun. Is it possible the man zimmerman said I don’t need you to call 911, I need you to help me restrain this guy. Could this be the man in white shirt seen on top of trayvon. Zimmerman stated he still had gun in his hand while spreading trayvon’s arms out on ground, could the guy in white shirt touch gun in process of taking over restraining trayvon? Also if go had his phone out when he got punched why didn’t we find it on sidewalk? My first comment ever. Thanks

  25. The fact that GZ was armed against an unarmed person makes a difference to me. He had the advantage from the get go. He did not, apparently, identify himself as Neighnorhood Watch when TM asked him why he was following him. Had he done that this all could have probably been avoided.
    GZ was a wanna be cop. He pursued TM and when TM confronted him GZ lost control of the situation.
    TM was within his rights to be walking home and also within his rights to ask GZ why he was following him. GZ was the adult and should have practiced more control of his impulses especially while carrying a weapon.

  26. After listening to the 911 recordings my first thought was that there was no question that Trayvon was the one screaming for help because in the middle of a scream there’s the gunshot and the scream immediately stops. If Zimmerman was the one screaming he wouldn’t stop mid scream when he shot Trayvon, but it makes perfect sense that if someone is screaming and is shot through the heart that they would stop mid scream. You are the only person I’ve seen bring up that point. That in itself is enough for me to question everything else Zimmerman said, but there is so much more evidence that his version isn’t true. Thanks for such an in depth and realistic timeline.

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