Zimmerman’s Police Statements Are Not Consistent With Established Facts

George Zimmerman’s written police statement, taken on the night that he shot Trayvon Martin, has now been released by his defense counsel, along with several audio recordings of oral statements he gave. I have not been able to listen to the recorded statements yet, but my transcript of the handwritten statement is as follows:

In August of 2011 my neighbors house was broken into while she was with her infant son. The intruders attempted to attack her and her child; however, SPD reported to the scene of the crime and the robbers fled, my wife saw the intruders running from the home and became scared of the rising crime within our neighborhood. I, an my neighbors formed a “Neighborhood Watch Program.” We were instructed by the SPD to call the non-emergency line if we saw anything suspicious & 911 if we saw a crime in progress. Tonight, I was on my way to the grocery store when I saw a male approximately 5’11” to 6’2″ casually walking in the rain, looking into homes. I pulled my vehicle over and called SPD non-emergency phone number. I told the dispatcher what I had witnesses, the dispatcher took note of my location & the suspect fled to a [darkened?] area of the sidewalk, as the dispatch was asking me for an exact location the suspect emerged from the darkness and circled my vehicle. I could not hear if he said anything. The suspect once again disappeared between the back of some houses. The dispatch once again asked for my exact location. I could not remember the name of the street so I got out of my car to look for a street sign. The dispatch asked me for a description and the direction the suspect went. I told the dispatch I did not know but I was out of my vehicle looking for a street sign & the direction the suspect went. The dispatch told me not to follow the suspect & that an officer was in route. As I headed back to my vehicle the suspect emerged from the darkness and said “you got a problem” I said “no” the suspect said “you do now”. And [illegible] and tried to find my phone to dial 911 the suspect punched me in the face. I fell backwards onto my back. The suspect got on top of me. I called “Help!” several times. The suspect told me “shut the fuck up” as I tried to sit up right. The suspect grabbed my head and slammed it into the concrete sidewalk several times. I continued to yell “Help!” each time I attempted to sit up, the suspect slammed my head into the side walk, my head felt like it was going to explode. I tried to slide out from under the suspect and continue to yell “Help”. As I slid the suspect covered my mouth and nose and stopped my breathing. At this point, I felt the suspect reach for my now exposed firearm and said “you gonna die tonight motha [fuckin’?].” I unholstered my firearm in fear for my life as he had assured he was going to kill me and fired one shot into his torso. The suspect got back allowing me to sit up and said “you got me.” At this point I slid out from underneath him and got on top of the suspect holding his hands away from his body. An onlooker appeared and asked me if I was ok, I said “no” he said “I am calling 911″ I said I don’t need you to call 911 I already called them I need you to help me restrain this guy.” At this point a SPD officer arrived and asked who shot him” & I said “I did” and I placed my hands ontop of my head and told the officer where my personal firearm was holstered. The officer handcuffed me and disarmed me. The officer then placed me into the back of his vehicle.

This statement is going to be a very big problem for Zimmerman’s defense team. It is more troubling than I expected — many of the more incongruous and bizarre claims that were in contained in the reports relayed by George Zimmerman’s brother and father are also present in Zimmerman’s own statement, and they are not adding up.

Even taking this statement in the most favorable light for the defense, it contains several factual inaccuracies and at least one gaping omission that Zimmerman’s counsel is going to have to explain. Some incorrect or distorted recollections are to be expected — witnesses are, in general, very bad at remembering a precise account of high stress events. That Zimmerman’s statement contains some odd inaccuracies is not notable in itself, or a sign that Zimmerman intentionally tried to misstate the truth. Zimmerman’s account, however, contains a number of troubling, self-serving statements that are inconsistent with the known facts of this case.

Here are excerpts of some of the more significant allegations in the statement, and a brief summary of the significance of those allegations.

 Tonight, I was on my way to the grocery store when I saw a male approximately 5’11” to 6’2″ casually walking in the rain, looking into homes.

Zimmerman lives in the far southwest corner of the neighborhood. Both entrances to the neighborhood complex are on the same road that Zimmerman lives on, and not on Twin Trees, where Zimmerman’s car was parked and where the first encounter between the two occurred. Why was Zimmerman on Twin Trees Ln., then? Zimmerman claims he just happened to notice Trayvon as he was driving to the grocery store, but it seems more likely Zimmerman pursued Trayvon in his car even before the call to police was made.

I have yet to see it confirmed precisely where Zimmerman’s truck was parked, or which way it was facing, but the consensus seems to be he was just east of the dog-leg of Twin Trees Ln., in the north side lane, facing towards the club house. In order to be in this location, Zimmerman would have had to have taken a very odd path out of the neighborhood complex.

[A]s the dispatch was asking me for an exact location the suspect emerged from the darkness and circled my vehicle. I could not hear if he said anything. The suspect once again disappeared between the back of some houses. The dispatch once again asked for my exact location.

Zimmerman’s call to the non-emergency line does not support this part of Zimmerman’s statement. In that call, Zimmerman does not narrate either (1) Trayvon “circling” his vehicle, or (2) Zimmerman losing sight of Trayvon on two separate occasions. In the phone call, we hear Zimmerman describing Trayvon “coming to check me out,” and then “running,” but Zimmerman never states that he lost sight of Trayvon before that. Nor does he mention any “circling” — only “approaching” and then passing by Zimmerman’s truck.

The suspect once again disappeared between the back of some houses. The dispatch once again asked for my exact location. I could not remember the name of the street so I got out of my car to look for a street sign.

First, there are exactly three streets in Zimmerman’s neighborhood. Three. It defies all reason that Zimmerman, the dedicated neighborhood watch leader, could not even name the three streets that make up his neighborhood. Additionally, the call logs from Zimmerman’s prior calls to the police seem to indicate that Zimmerman was repeatedly able to direct officers to precise crossroads in the neighborhood, reporting incidents at “nearest  Intersection:  TWIN TREES LN &  LONG OAK WAY”. A review of the transcripts of those calls would be necessary to be sure, but I suspect that will be easily confirmed.

And second, there are no street signs anywhere near where Zimmerman’s car was parked, where the shooting took place, or anywhere in between. If Zimmerman was going to look for a street sign, he was going the wrong way. In fact, in the call to police, Zimmerman freely admits his purpose in exiting the vehicle was to follow Trayvon:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah

So Zimmerman’s written statement does not provide his prior admitted reason for getting out of his vehicle, and substitutes it with a nonsensical alternative explanation. Why would Zimmerman lie about his reason for getting out of the car, when the truth was not even particularly detrimental to his claims? It does show that Zimmerman was aware of a need to rewrite the events, starting even with basic details.

The dispatch told me not to follow the suspect & that an officer was in route. As I headed back to my vehicle the suspect emerged from the darkness and said “you got a problem” I said “no” the suspect said “you do now”.

Dispatch instructed Zimmerman not to follow the suspect at approximately 7:11:55 – 7:12:05pm. My best estimate of when the encounter between Zimmerman and Trayvon occurred is between 7:15:30 – 7:15:45pm, and it seems unlikely based on available testimony that it occurred any sooner. So that is, conservatively, an entire three minute period of events, which Zimmerman’s statement utterly omits, and which his statement glosses over as if it were a period of only a few seconds.

In the minimum 200 second time period that elapsed between Zimmerman being instructed to return to his vehicle and the time of the fight, what did Zimmerman do? We do not know, and his statement to police never explains it. The physical altercation between Zimmerman and Trayvon occurred ~35 meters from the location of Zimmerman’s truck — he could have walked there and back to his truck again three times over, in the time that elapsed.

Zimmerman apparently believes that his actions during that time period are best left unstated. We can only speculate as to why.

[E]ach time I attempted to sit up, the suspect slammed my head into the side walk[.]

Trayvon’s body was found over a body length away from the sidewalk. The shell casing from Zimmerman’s gun was found ~4 ft from the sidewalk. Zimmerman’s back and the fronts of his boots and the front cuffs of his pants are damp, and either shown in photos or reported by witnesses to be covered in grass. Witnesses also reported the fight occuring in the grass between the houses.

It is definitely possible that the fight between the two occurred partially on the sidewalk, but this part of Zimmerman’s story has always felt wrong to me — it just does not add up. But, based on released evidence so far, it is impossible to get any better of a reconstruction of how the fight actually played out.

As I slid the suspect covered my mouth and nose and stopped my breathing. At this point, I felt the suspect reach for my now exposed firearm and said “you gonna die tonight motha [fuckin’?]”. I unholstered my firearm in fear for my life as he had assured he was going to kill me and fired on shot into his torso.

This statement reads like it was perfectly scripted to provide a self-defense claim. Zimmerman’s own stated reason for shooting Trayvon was not based on Trayvon’s unarmed physical assault, but rather on Trayvon’s “assur[ances]” that he would kill Zimmerman. If you’re going to claim self-defense, it can’t hurt to make the claim that your victim conveniently notified you of his murderous intent seconds before you shot him.

Apparently, Zimmerman did not consider using lethal force during the beating until Trayvon made a threat to take Zimmerman’s own gun away, and the “fear for [his] life” only came as a result of Zimmerman’s own firearm being introduced to the fight. But nothing about this description of the fight makes sense, no matter how I try to picture how it might have happened. (1) With a single hand, Trayvon was able to cover Zimmerman’s airway sufficiently to stop his breathing. (2) With his other hand, Trayvon was able to grab Zimmerman’s holstered weapon. (3) Despite not being able to breathe, Zimmerman does not use his (apparently unrestrained) hands to clear his airway. Instead while Trayvon was laying on top of him and while Trayvon was also grabbing at the gun, Zimmerman was able to unholster the gun at his side — presumably single-handedly, using only the hand on the same side as the gun, as Trayvon was on top of him — .raise the gun from his waist  to chest level, push Trayvon far enough off of him in order to place the gun between himself and Trayvon, and fire. (4) The first 911 call shows that the “help!” calls continue right up to, and are cut off by, the screams for help. Zimmerman was apparently still able to shout during this time period, despite having had his breathing “stopped” by Trayvon.

It doesn’t make sense. It is possible, however, that owing to the stress of the fight and the intensity of the moment, Zimmerman is remembering the details out of order, leading to the story’s incoherency.

An onlooker appeared and asked me if I was ok, I said “no” he said “I am calling 911”

I wonder if the “onlooker” referred to hear is witness “John,” who reported stating during the fight that he was calling 911? If so, then either Zimmerman is completely wrong about events, or John apparently only stated he was calling 911 after Trayvon was already dead.

At this point I slid out from underneath him and got on top of the suspect holding his hands away from his body.

This could explain why there is contradicting witness testimony regarding who was on top and who was on bottom of the fight. The witness who reported seeing someone in a “white shirt” on top may have seen Zimmerman pinning Trayvon after he was already dead.

-Susan

1,129 thoughts on “Zimmerman’s Police Statements Are Not Consistent With Established Facts

  1. Zimmerman’s donations had slowed some since some of the evidence has been released and Zimmerman’s police statements don’t line up with established facts. Since Judge Lester has modified the bond amount upwards to $1M, O’Mara’s website is boasting a fresh new $20K+ in donations overnight and copy/pasted messages are appearing in the blogosphere everywhere.

    What is the likelihood that some PR firms are behind the surge in copy/paste blog messages? What is the likelihood that the same PR firms are getting paid by the nuts that are contributing to the cause to free the murderer who gunned down a black teen who had not committed a crime as he strolled home? Who are the backers of this PR movement? Is it the kkk revived?

    • From O’Mara’s website set up to collect fees for O’Mara based on his client’s killing of a black child:

      “Since the $1,000,000 bond was made public on July 5, supporters have donated approximately $20,000. In the two months prior to the Court’s Order Setting Bail, the George Zimmerman Defense Fund had received approximately $55,000.”

  2. Sybrina Fulton received donations of paid time off from her co-workers in order to be able to grieve and be available for matters pertaining to bringing justice for her son. I wonder if there is any other way to help the Martin family. It sickens me to know that people are donating to her son’s killer for living expenses, but she’s wrongly ridiculed as the profiteer making money off her son’s killing. I wish I could help her and her family via a money donation just so she can continue to focus on bringing justice instead of worrying about what she’ll do after the vacation time her colleagues donated runs out. Has anyone heard of a valid fund that can support the Martin family?

      • “Why not send the money to his stepmother.”

        What stops you? Go for it!
        In the mean time, it is totally normal for co-workers to express their condoleances by giving a few hours (or a day) of their own vacation time to help a co-worker who is grieving, or who is sick!

        That is what Union workers often do. In fact, when I was working for a State agency, we had a co-worker who was struck with cancer, and she had ran out of vacation time and sick leave. She would have lost her job if all of us (we were about 500 in that agency) didn’t give her a few hours up to 2 dayss of our “vacation accrual.” Because of that “time off,” that woman was able to get all the medical leave and the rest she needed to fight her cancer, and . . . she came back to work free of cancer!

        These kind of “gifts” not only demonstrate empathy, and the willingness to actually do more than “talking” about “sympathy,” but also brings the whole work community together. It is extremely healthy, not just for the person who receives the gift, but also for the whole employee pool!

    • Excellent point again, Common Sense!
      Maybe someone should set up a Trayvon’s fund. . .maybe even a fund that will allow Trayvon’s parents to sue for civil damages in their son’s death!

    • Sadanie –

      I may just try to do that later as the trial approaches. I currently don’t have the time, but I would love to help the Martin’s through this nightmare they must be going through. Maybe at some point, I’ll contact Benjamin Crump to find out how to help.

      I think they’re covered for several months. My worry is that they won’t be when the donated leave runs out and that will be before the trial.

      I don’t want Ms. Fulton, Mr. Martin, Ms. Green, or Trayvon’s stepmother to ever have to choose between keeping the roof over their or their kids’ heads or defending Trayvon Martin’s reputation and bringing justice for all of us — white, black, hispanice or purple. We should be “free” to go to the convenience store in this country without worries that some vigilante will find that our plastic bag doled out to us to carry our purchased merchandise won’t be called into a police officer as a suspicious “He’s got something in his hands, I don’t know what his deal is” as a justification for shooting us dead!

      • Common Sense, if you can get a fund for the Martins off the ground, (you or anyone else), I would certainly contribute. This family has suffered enough.

  3. Susan writes in answer to my post claiming it will be extremely difficult for the prosecution to defeat self defense since it has to be shown BRD that he could have escaped or had no justifiable fear for his life:

    “Because Zimmerman did not have any trauma to the back of his head, and because Zimmerman knew the police were on their way and that there were neighbors close at hand who were also calling the police.

    The state’s case will be that he had no reasonable reason to believe he was about to die, since his head had not actually suffered any trauma, and he had not “exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death” — if Zimmerman had simply waited 30 seconds before shooting, Trayvon would be alive today”.

    That is plenty of Monday morning quarterbacking. It is not going to be that easy. Just claiming that Zimmerman overestimated how severely he had been beaten before the shooting fails. Somehow it will have to be shown he was dishonest about his fear. Here is what Jeralyn says about this on her blog: http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/24/122557/873

    6. The Danger George Zimmerman Feared Need not be Real or Actual.

    Raneri v. State(1971)

    While the danger need not be real or actual, the appearance of danger must be both real and imminent and the slayer must actually and reasonably believe that it is necessary to act in order to save his own life or that of a member of his family from death or great bodily harm in order to constitute justification.

    Stinson v. State(1971)

    A person may act upon appearances as they appear to him at the time, even to the extent of taking human life if he honestly and actually believes – and the attending circumstances and conditions are such that a reasonably cautious and prudent person would believe – that he or some member of his family is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm at the hands of the deceased. The danger need not be real or actual, but the appearance of danger must be both real and imminent and the slayer must honestly believe it is necessary to act in order to save his own life or that of a member of his family from death or great personal injury in order to constitute justification. He must actually and reasonably believe the danger to be actual and the necessity real.

  4. For those of you that may be wondering why I am “So hung up on the Probable Cause Affidavit” This story explains why perfectly. We have protections in the FL laws to prevent cases exactly like the one in this story (776.032 Immunity). If he is found Not-Guilty, acquitted, or the charges just plain thrown out pick your own legal reason, can Angela Corey really undo the damage done to Zimmerman with an apology. His reimbursement by any name you give it, will come out of my Grocery Bill, my Gas Bill, every tax I pay to the state (We don’t have State Income Tax). In reality My fellow Floridians and I are paying for this prosecution every day, and if it is not as solid a case as people on this board seem to think, we will be the ones to pay out our rears in sales taxes for Angela Corey to say “Schucks, My Bad”. Before any prosecutor goes after anyone they had better have probable cause, not just make stuff up that was supposedly told to the guy just to get an arrest. What if you were Mr. Lewis, could an apology put your life back together. I don’t care about Zimmerman, I care about the system and the people of FL.

    Update: Man acquitted in shooting is ‘happy to be free’, but now is homeless. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120222/NEWS01/302220033/Update-Man-acquitted-shttp://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120222/NEWS01/302220033/Update-Man-acquitted-shooting-happy-free-now-homelesshooting-happy-free-now-homeless

    • Inspector, I hope you are in contact with your legislators in Florida and can get an answer for me for why such an outrageous document like the Probable Cause Affidavit in this case can be used to indict somebody. I wonder what they would say if you suggested that Florida adopt the European system of having a wall between the police and prosecutors and indictments can only be handed out by an investigative judge who holds hearings, directs the police investigators and doesn’t let a prosecutor near the case until and indictment is issued. In the US, Connecticut may have a system close to that. Grand Juries are not as good since they usually refuse to let the defense be heard.

    • The European System puts too much power in the hands of Judges. I see the Grand Jury as a system that allows the citizens to review, decide, and oversee Elected Officials in the process of protecting our rights. I am pushing for Grand Jury review of all Self Defense cases before arrest.

      I do not know where you live so here are the official lists:

      Florida Senate:
      http://www.flsenate.gov/senators/

      Florida House:
      http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/sections/representatives/representatives.aspx

      You are going to have to dig down to your area to locate your district on the new maps.

      Florida Redistricting 2012:
      http://www.floridaredistricting.org/

    • I am curious what the various people here think about mandating a Grand Jury on any self defense case to keep the prosecutors in check. Since it was the PC affidavit, Det Gilbreath’s testimony, and Angela Corey’s History of prosecutions that started me questioning this case. She had a chance to go to a Grand Jury and decided against that route, going with a Second Degree Murder charge that does not mandate a Grand Jury. It is safe to say that if a Grand Jury had seen this before the arrest of Zimmerman I would not have changed my mind about this case.

    • Here is some background to Peter’s Comment

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations

      Grand jury hearings

      Under the authority of New York State Attorney General Robert Abrams, a grand jury was called to hear evidence. On October 6, 1988, the Abrams Grand Jury released its 170-page report concluding Brawley had not been abducted, assaulted, raped and sodomized, as had been claimed by Brawley and her advisers. The report further concluded that the “unsworn public allegations against Dutchess County Assistant District Attorney Steven Pagones” were false and had no basis in fact. To issue the report, the Grand Jury heard from 180 witnesses, saw 250 exhibits and recorded more than 6,000 pages of testimony.[17]

      In the decision, the grand jury noted many problems with Brawley’s story. Among these were that the rape kit results did not indicate sexual assault. Also, despite her claim of having been held captive for days, Brawley was not suffering from exposure, was well-nourished, and appeared to have brushed her teeth recently. Despite her clothing being charred, there were no burns on her body. Although a shoe she was wearing was cut through, Brawley had no injuries to her foot. The racial epithets written on her were upside down, which led to suspicion that Brawley had written the words. Testimony from her schoolmates indicated she had attended a local party during the time of her supposed abduction. One witness claimed to have observed Brawley’s climbing into the garbage bag.[18] Brawley never testified.[19]

    • InspG, thanks for the good info. I mentioned the Brawley case for a reason because there is some parallel to the appearance of “DeeDee” in this case at a convenient time and with a convenient story that makes no sense. Brawley never testified and was only 15 at the time.

      But what happens with DeeDee? Like it or not, the State’s entire case effectively rests on DeeDee’s shoulders. She will likely not be a minor at the time of trial and the big question then is if she will testify?

      Crump appears to be DeeDee’s “attorney.” This raises a flagrant conflict of interest issue because Crump was one of her “handlers” who put her up to her phantasmagorical story that everyone, except the most ‘off-the-wall’ DeeDee supporters, now do not even mention anymore.

      Crump has a financial interest in DeeDee telling the “story,” and as attorney for the Martins’ he also has a strong interest in promoting DeeDee as a “witness.”

      However, DeeDee will be facing perjury charges if she testifies. Yet, she has received NO FINANCIAL OR OTHER BENEFIT for lying for Crump’s benefit. She was exploited by Crump and her handlers for their own gain. And she may well suffer the consequences unless she obtains an independent lawyer to represent her interests not those of Crump, the Martins and the media.

    • That is a horrible case! At least there is a glimmer of hope for this man who lost it all as he was found not guilty. From the article, he seem very optimistic and appreciative that he was found not guilty. Also from the article, he was able to resume his work. His employers must be decent people.

      On the other hand, he also said that he was only arrested and not afforded self-defense because he was black and profiled regardless of the evidence. Overcharging may be in play in his issue since he had been on the phone with 9-1-1 as he was attacked, but as a black man, he was charged day 1. Zimmerman was not. That’s the problem!

    • I do not think a grand jury is always necessary — especially when dealing with a predominately ill-informed population of older, southern, potentially old-school racially biased demographic. Education of jurors would be first required, imo, and I don’t think southern states that don’t tax can afford that type of education.

      • “I do not think a grand jury is always necessary — especially when dealing with a predominately ill-informed population of older, southern, potentially old-school racially biased demographic. Education of jurors would be first required, imo, and I don’t think southern states that don’t tax can afford that type of education.”

        Looks like it’s not just Zimmerman stereotyping.

        unitron

    • @ron –

      IMO, a stereotype is only wrong when you use it to justify killing or adverse discrimination or unjustified fear based on what the media presents. Other times, stereotyping can be an appreciation and a recognition of cultural habits.

      As a southerner, I have no problem recognizes what I see in the south. Just an FYI, for a long time, black people feared whites as devils and stereotyped them as same. Thank God blacks were better educated to understand that whites are humans, too.

      • “…for a long time, black people feared whites as devils and stereotyped them as same. ”

        That wasn’t stereotyping, that was playing the odds based on long and bitter experience.

        unitron

    • Sorry for the typos. It’s the new “type for me”, “think for me” computer that keeps completing my words. Wish there was an edit button.

    • Around the time I was born a very wise man gave a piece of advice, I try to live by that advice by looking at things around me and reversing the colors/races of things and events and seeing if it is acceptable or unacceptable. For me you can reverse the races of Martin and Zimmerman and I would still have the same problems with the prosecution, I would still have the same opinion if Martin had won the fight for the gun instead of Zimmerman and they arrested him. I am comfortable saying that my opinions would not change regardless of the races involved. I have been to countries where you are just as likely to have your arms hacked off for being the wrong ethnic group, where you use a car battery to run the only light in the house at night because your family belongs to the wrong tribe, where kids learn to use an AK-47 instead of a Calculator. You may want to go back and learn from that wise man and his opinions before you stereotype all the people of the south you so willingly call ignorant. Last time I looked he was from the south too, not that many miles from where I grew up.

      “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”

      That statement has affected my entire life.

    • @ron –

      Here’s a silly link someone made of the various stereotypes for 50 states.

      Also, Zimmerman had profiled Trayvon Martin, not stereo-typed him, correct?

      Here’s a quick link to wikipedia for more information on stereotyping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

      I don’t think all stereotyping is bad.

  5. Hello,

    I have a simple question; if the Prosecution fails to convict on Second-Degree murder; does Zimmerman walk or one of two other things happen:

    (1) They can, in court take their charge down a notch to manslaughter and still score a conviction?

    OR

    (2) Can they come back and charge with Manslaughter?

    Thanks.

  6. Now that the bond sideshow is over, the case against Zimmerman looks weaker than ever.

    In reality, even with a biased judge like Judge Lester (his wife is a homicide prosecutor in Orange County, right next door to to Seminole County) the State doesn’t have the remotest chance of a win here.

    Judge Lester’s silly “strong case” ruling was exposed when he had to “eat crow” and explain how he reached it. An eight-year old explaining why he didn’t do his homework could have done better.

    An interesting area that hasn’t yet been picked up yet:

    DeeDee — Crump calls her: “the young lady.” The media (and certain commentors on this site) confuse her with Joan of Arc — will no longer be a minor by the time she testifies under oath at trial. Think perjury. That is, if she is foolish enough to testify. Her phone records remain a carefully guarded secret — resembling Iranian nuclear secrets in their secrecy.

    Her phone records will show she committed perjury many times in her “interview” with the prosecutor because she was never on the phone during critical parts of her phantasmagorical story — we haven’t read much about her lately, have we.

    Also, no one seems to have picked up on that her “story” alibis Zimmerman in one key respect: Zimmerman says he first saw Martin at 1440 RVC, way west (away from Brandy’s unit) of the “mail shed” where DeeDee says Martin was just before he headed ‘home.’ So where Zimmerman admits he tracked Martin since first seeing him, DeeDee said Martin only saw Zimmerman “staring” right after he left the “mail shed,” which was only shortly before he started running. So, based on DeeDee’s version, there was no prior ‘following’ by Zimmerman — that is if you are foolish enough to believe DeeDee.

    DeeDee was virtually the entire basis for the probable cause affidavit — the “strong case” according to Judge Lester.

    • I got lost trying to understand Judge Lester’s explanation of how he found that the prosecution had a “strong case”. By the way, the quotes are his. Perhaps you could paraphrase his argument.

      I haven’t figured out what the relevance of Zimmerman’s movements in his truck were unless he kept slowly moving it to follow Martin, which would certainly annoy the latter. When asked by Serino about what he could have done to tick off Martin, Zimmerman said he might have been mad that he called the cops about him. Coming up with a whopper like that certainly added to Serino’s suspicions.

    • Ricky said:
      “I got lost trying to understand Judge Lester’s explanation of how he found that the prosecution had a “strong case”. By the way, the quotes are his. Perhaps you could paraphrase his argument.”

      ***First, to understand the bond process look at Jeralyn’s posts at talkleft.com. Second, don’t hold judges on any pedestals. That said, here is a rough “translation” of what happened:

      The original bond hearing was an “Arthur” hearing, because Zimmerman was facing life. The ONLY evidence Lester was permitted to look at for bond was what was presented at the hearing. At the hearing, Lester did not rule the State had a “strong case.” Such a ruling allows him to then exercise more powers. When bond was revoked, Lester issued his written order from the original bond hearing and added the finding the State’s case was “strong.” The rest was simply legal “chaff” to cover himself from embarrassment. Some Judges never admit they are wrong. In effect, what he said was he didn’t see any evidence to counter a “strong case.” To try to explain such nonsense cannot really be done — though Lester tries to.

      At the original bond hear “you were there” and saw everything Lester was permitted to see in ruling for bond. You are free to second guess him on such a bad ruling, without presuming he knows something you don’t know, since there was no such extra information.

      “I haven’t figured out what the relevance of Zimmerman’s movements in his truck were unless he kept slowly moving it to follow Martin, which would certainly annoy the latter. When asked by Serino about what he could have done to tick off Martin, Zimmerman said he might have been mad that he called the cops about him. Coming up with a whopper like that certainly added to Serino’s suspicions.”

      ***The State’s (and the media’s) case is a madman constantly pursuing an innocent black child till he caught up with him, cornered him, and killed him. The more “following” the better. DeeDee’s version undercut that story because we have the dispatcher tape and her version only relates that the beginning of the “following” was after Martin left the “mail shed” and saw Zimmerman on the phone [with the dispatcher].

      It is interesting that long before Zimmerman’s statement was released, I pointed out that a logical reason for Martin running was simply a desire not to be stopped by a police officer or security guard for suspicious conduct (he was busted for drugs at school in exactly that manner!). He didn’t need that trouble. So when Martin realized that his actions could be considered “suspicious” (remember, this was even before Zimmerman stated what he saw a suspect hanging out near 1440 RVC), and seeing Zimmerman on the phone while looking at him, if does not take a genius to assume Martin just might be concerned he was about to be hassled again.

      Serino asked for Zimmerman’s OPINION. That is not real evidence. Furthermore, I believe 9 out of 10 block watchers would have said EXACTLY the same thing Zimmerman said if asked for a “hindsight” theory: that the suspect, seeing a person on the phone looking at him closely and following him while he was acting suspiciously, might be concerned the police or a security guard had been called and was coming. I certainly would have offered that opinion also. Because it makes perfect sense.

  7. There are all sorts of different kinds of Grand Juries used in the USA . Its meaning is a group of citizens, officially appointed to investigate something. The most common kind is the (usually) 23 people appointed from the same state country which meets every week to OK indictments prepared by the local prosecutor. The US Constitution mandates that this method of indictment be used for federal crimes. This kind is the one somebody claimed, “Would indict a ham sandwich”. The Tawana Brawley case was heard by a grand jury, just appointed to study that case. Apparently in Florida, a grand jury is only necessary for a Murder 1 indictment. Otherwise somebody can be indicted by a prosecutor getting a judge to sign a Probable Cause Affidavit. The rest of the world, as I said before, uses investigative judges, working with the police, to decide on indictments.

    • Judge Lester said the case was strong because O’Mara didn’t provide any testimony to self defense that could be cross-examined. I could be wrong on that, but that’s my take.

  8. Tawana Brawley, blah, blah. t

    What about these cases? Were grand juries called? What were the outcomes if so?

    Emmit Till.. OJ Simpson. Jena Six. Kenneth Chamberlain. Jay Rodney Lewis. Trayvon Martin.

    • Tawana Brawley. DeeDee. Perjury.

      And a ruined future hiding out from the media and the public after everything comes out at trial.

      For what?

      Everyone else profits mightily from DeeDee’s ultimate ruin … all except DeeDee who was put up to her false statements by her “handlers” [including Crump] and will eventually suffer the consequences.

      I see no one on this blog still defending her “story” [except the empty headed “true believers”]. Even the rabid media has, conveniently, “forgotten” about DeeDee. No doubt some of the media attorneys started looking critically at her phantasmagorical, contradictory stories [and thought “Tawana”]. And her sworn disastrous “statement” surely brought great pain to the prosecutor!

  9. At least Tawana Brawley was, at some point, protected from her handlers.

    “^ Glaberson, William (July 24, 1998). “Once Again, Brawley Declines to Testify.”
    . New York Times. Retrieved 2008-03-30. “More than a decade after she frustrated investigators by refusing to testify about her allegations of abduction and rape, Tawana Brawley failed to appear in court today.” http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A03E6D61239F937A15754C0A96E958260

    TWANA GOT GOOD LEGAL ADVICE AND NEVER TESTIFIED UNDER OATH.

    UNLIKE DEEDEE.

    DeeDee was under the control of Crump, who stands to profit mightily from her phantasmagorical story and allowed who her to give her disastrous statement to the prosecutor UNDER OATH.

    Crump used DeeDee … and hurt her badly.

    • What does this have to do with the fact that Zimmerman’s stories are lies, as well as his pathetic attempt to fool the court? He is a lousy liar, lousy actor, and lousy Neighborhood Watch Captain. His stories don’t match the evidence. He thinks is smarter than everyone and he thinks he superior to them as well. Especially when he carries a gun and shoots and kills an unarmed kid. So, again what does any of your rants on Crump have to do with the truth of George Zimmerman’s proven character flaws?

    • “What does this have to do with ….. etc.”?

      ***The burden shifts to the State to disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt once a jury instruction (a certainty) is issued.

      OM will present a self defense case based on witnesses (besides DeeDee), medical reports, photos of damage to Zimmerman and lack of damage to Martin, the forensic report showing a “contact” wound, and other evidence and he will argue self defense.

      How does the State, which has the impossible burden of disproving the defense’s claim of self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt do that?

      The States ENTIRE glue to its story is DeeDee (as witness) was already shown by the probable cause affidavit and testimony at the bond hearing. From a practical point of view, the State has no other witness to present the prosecution’s story, let alone disprove the defense theories beyond a reasonable doubt.

      Feel free to ignore the law, delude yourself about the law … and be sorely disappointed with the ultimate verdict.

    • Good lord, PeterO, in addition to your constant alternate scenarios, now you think you’re convincing everyone of Zimmerman’s innocence by adding histrionic hyperbole to the mix? “…. from her phantasmagorical story and allowed who her (sic) to give her disastrous statement to the prosecutor UNDER OATH.” Really?! “Phantasmagorical” (twice!) to describe Dee Dee’s statement which was, in fact, pretty straightforward. She didn’t go crazy creating dramatic scenarios or dissolve into hysteria.

      Do you have any idea how many people you’ve chased off Susan’s blog since you decided to make it your own? I know of at least three. And now it’s four. Yeesh.

    • “Dee Dee’s statement which was, in fact, pretty straightforward.”????

      ***verafish, didn’t you watch the bond hearing? Even Gilbreath made certain he had NOT read her actual statement personally. So he used ‘hearsay’ to protect himself. Despite having DeeDee’s “story” plastered across the national media, the State STILL said it did NOT know who started the confrontation. Doesn’t that tell you anything?

      You appear very unconcerned about DeeDee’s ultimate fate if she testifies.

      I picked the word “phantasmagorical” carefully. It means:

      “1. having a fantastic or deceptive appearance, as something in a dream or created by the imagination.”
      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/phantasmagorical

      DeeDee’s monster/child “hunt to the death” chase sequence, as she told repeatedly on national TV, was “a fantastic or deceptive appearance, as something in a dream or created by the imagination.”

      It was physically impossible when compared to the dispatcher tape and Martin’s phone records. She lied. And now, you want her to ruin her life by lying at trial so you, now, can say her story was “straightforward” on a blog. For shame.

  10. The state his little to prove in regards to anything at this point……George has created all the reasonable doubt for his self defense case himself. There is no self defense. He is a liar, a manipulator, and a weasel. He created that persona….not Crump.

    • You can not erase George Zimmerman’s statements, or his videos. His lies are on file for ever. He can never go back and change anything. He is the only witness of importance in his own trial for his fabricated paranoia of criminal activity and suspicion of an event that was not happening, then taking a position of law enforcement where he has no reason to involve himself in, then pursuing a teenager doing no wrong, and ultimately confronting this human being and ending his life for no reason what so ever. He is the only witness of value in this case.

    • @Jodi Ann –

      I wonder if he has seen a psychiatrist before. Like you, I definitely get the impression that Zimmerman is a paranoid person that *invents situations that were clearly not happening. I can’t tell yet whether he’s psycho or just 100% pure evil.

      In any event, hunting teenagers is a huge no-no in a civilized society.

  11. Susan –

    Is there any way to legally prevent an attorney from raising funds if the request is directed at people who would also “do the same if they were in Mr. Zimmerman’s shoes”?

    Is there anything in the fed or state bar rules that would prohibit such an incendiary way to raise money?

    If “JoeTerror” were in need of a defense fund and the attorney defending said person on a terrorism charge was tasked with raising money for the defense, would it be ethical, legal or within the rules and guidelines for an attorney to have a website up to collect defense funds which said:

    “for those who feel they would do the same if they were in JoeTerror’s shoes… please support us”

    Public sentiment seems to be that what O’Mara is doing with regard to appealing to would-be teen-killers crosses the line of decency and I agree.

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/07/05/511620/zimmerman-attorney-seeks-donations-from-people-who-also-would-have-shot-trayvon-martin/?mobile=nc

  12. How can Zimmerman prove he actually goes grocery shopping every Sunday night? Will O’Mara have to provide this info?

    Suppose the so-called text Zimmerman sent to someone (his sister, I think) that confirms he was out shopping is only a cover for his unauthorized NW patrols while carrying a gun. Suppose as part of his legal training, Zimmerman found a way to cover himself by using a text to a family member to establish his intentions.

    Wouldn’t it be required to show a pattern of purchasing groceries on Sundays? Maybe cash or credit card receipts, etc.

    Why didn’t Zimmerman have a wallet when he went shopping for groceries on 2/26/12? There is no wallet in the evidence collected by the police and Shellie Zimmerman moved the car. With the absence of evidence of where George Zimmerman was going, how will O’Mara verify to a jury that Zimmerman just happened upon Trayvon Martin while on his way to buy groceries as Zimmerman’s family said?

    • I’m assuming he did have a wallet, he did have to show his CCW permit, considering how much in debt they were in, he used credit cards for almost everything. They also got a loan from Mom. I was speaking to my sister-in-law who is not following the case, heard about it but not following. She made a remark that I have been thinking about also. That George and his father are not close. She made the remark while I was watching the recorded bond hearing while RZ was on the stand. It took me by surprised that she caught that, because I have also got the same impression from him. He almost very rarely says my son, he usually refers to him as George Zimmerman. I never seen a parent talk about their own by their name, it seem a bit off for me. IMO.

      I also noted that everyone has him seeing Trayvon for the first time at 1460 RVC. I listened to the audios again and on Recording number 2 with Singleton @ :39 forward Singleton ask, This is the neighborhood we are talking about. Can you put and X where you FIRST saw the guy.@ :44 GZ right about here. @ :45 right about here. @:47 This is the entrance, correct. GZ yes Mam
      @:53 This is where you first saw the guy.

      http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/audio/george-zimmermans-statements-sanford-pd-audio/

      In reenactments and other interviews he goes with 1460 coming between the houses. He actually started following him as soon as Trayvon got through the gate. Video footage of the clubhouse is out. What we need is the camera footage of the entrance of RVC.

    • @Anonymous –

      I noticed that, too. But without a copy of the map, we can’t tell where he marks as the place he first saw Trayvon Martin.

      Regarding the father/son relationship of George Zimmerman and Robert Zimmerman, I got the impression around the time that Sonner was representing Zimmerman that George didn’t trust his father to hold the money and that’s why he set up his own website.

      • UGHH,
        I always forget to fill out the form.
        Anon is me Loree.

        Agreed on map. But I’ll take the Detective’s word that he first saw him at the entrance for now.
        How’s it going CSFC? I’m still waiting on info regarding 4, 7 , and 10. I’ve been looking for them since the first discovery dump. I wonder if they will let some more discovery before the 15th.

    • I’m assuming Zimmerman didn’t have a wallet since it wasn’t given to SPD when his clothes and other personal belongings were handed over. Zimmerman also did not provide his underwear to the police, although Trayvon Martin’s underwear was marked as evidence collected.

      Since both wallets and underwear are places criminals conceal weapons, I’m assuming Zimmerman didn’t have either on his person. Otherwise, the police should have collected and inspected these items.

      • “Since both wallets and underwear are places criminals conceal weapons, I’m assuming Zimmerman didn’t have either on his person. Otherwise, the police should have collected and inspected these items.”

        That’s an interesting observations! You’re right, no wallet, no credit card, no driver license were inventoried!
        So. . .how did Zimmerman plan on paying for his groceries at Target? And why was he driving without a driver license?

    • If one were to use common sense for a change, you would realize that Zimmerman does not need to prove his innocence.

      The State of Florida did not have probable cause to seize Zimmerman’s wallet.

      The map was released. How do you think Zimmerman remembered the name of Twin Trees the next day?

      Singleton was asking to know where the entrance was to help her orient herself. She was vaguely familiar with the area (she knew they were two story townhouses) so probably had driven past on Oregon, but had not been out to the crime scene.

      1460 RVC is at the cut through where Emmanuel Burgess was arrested. My guess is that witnesses 4, 7, and 10 were the 3 persons with Burgess, or the 3 persons at the 7-11 (or maybe they are the same).

  13. What O’Mara REALLY said about contributing to the defense fund: http://www.gzdefensefund.com/

    “For those who have given in the past, for those who have thought about giving, for those who feel Mr. Zimmerman was justified in his actions, for those who feel they would do the same if they were in Mr. Zimmerman’s shoes, for those that think Mr. Zimmerman has been treated unfairly by the media, for those who feel Mr. Zimmerman has been falsely accused as a racist, for those who feel this case is an affront to their constitutional rights — now is the time to show your support.”

    My guess is there are many victims of unprovoked violent attacks, who are now either dead or maimed, who would, even today, if they could, GLADLY exchange places with Zimmerman.

    And many, who believe that “there but for the grace of god” they could have been in Zimmerman’s position, are in overwhelming support of Zimmerman.

    Martin was a thug who thought he could get away with violently and viciously attacking someone who “stared” at him.

    And he got what he didn’t expect: a victim, who, in desperation, had a legal means of self-defense (a gun) — and properly and legally used it for self-defense.

    As for the REAL public reaction: after the initial media reporting fiasco, and despite it, national polls flip-flopped and turned about 2 to 1 in favor of Zimmerman’s claim of for self-defense. See:

    http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-06-18/story/polls-show-shift-public-opinion-about-trayvon-martins-shooter

  14. Come on, Susan, quit wasting your time being happily married and pursuing a brilliant career and take care of the important stuff, like starting an new Zimmerman thread.

    This one’s getting unwieldy.

    Hey, if there were no Florida, would TruTV even exist?

    unitron

  15. IANAL.
    I do believe they include the lesser charge of manslaughter with the 2nd degree murder charge.
    Also Susan Simpson had posted this also, hope this helps.
    https://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/14/the-statutory-basis-for-the-murder-charge-against-george-zimmerman-and-his-available-defenses-under-florida-law/

    To me, if you get charged with 2nd degree murder you can’t get hung with manslaughter as a fall-back default unless they ask for that in court (i.e. They request a change in the charge via plea or some other means)

    I guess what I am referring to is when it comes to the wire and if the Jury finds Zimmerman not guilty do they also decide on manslaughter?

    This is where a lawyer would help. If people can explain this to someone like a five year old that would be great.

    Thanks.

    • My understanding in Florida is that the jury instructions will automatically include the lesser included offense of manslaughter. I believe that is what happened in the Casey Anthony case.

    • Ahhh; this would be why the Prosecution didn’t charge with manslaughter. They know he will be found guilty of manslaughter and just charged higher to see if they get more.

      Thanks.

    • In the case of Casey Anthony they never had a body; it was completely circumstantial.

      In George Zimmerman’s case, whether or not Trayvon Martin threw the first punch doesn’t matter; George Zimmerman created the threat by constantly following Trayvon with a loaded gun. It’s clear that Trayvon was never trying to confront George Zimmerman at all. He was running away.

      What is George Zimmerman’s excuse for constantly continuing to follow Trayvon Martin? A man he was supposedly afraid of?

      That’s manslaughter at a minimum, sir.

      That’s manslaughter at a minimum.

  16. What O’Mara REALLY said about contributing to the defense fund:

    “For those who have given in the past, for those who have thought about giving, for those who feel Mr. Zimmerman was justified in his actions, for those who feel they would do the same if they were in Mr. Zimmerman’s shoes, for those that think Mr. Zimmerman has been treated unfairly by the media, for those who feel Mr. Zimmerman has been falsely accused as a racist, for those who feel this case is an affront to their constitutional rights — now is the time to show your support.”

    My guess is there are many victims of unprovoked violent attacks, who are now either dead or maimed, who would, even today, if they could, GLADLY exchange places with Zimmerman.

    And many, who believe that “there but for the grace of god” they could have been in Zimmerman’s position, are in overwhelming support of Zimmerman.

    Martin was a thug who thought he could get away with violently and viciously attacking someone who “stared” at him.

    And he got what he didn’t expect: a victim, who, in desperation, had a legal means of self-defense (a gun) — and properly and legally used it for self-defense.

    As for the REAL public reaction: after the initial media reporting fiasco, and despite it, national polls flip-flopped and turned about 2 to 1 in favor of Zimmerman’s claim of for self-defense. See:

    http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-06-18/story/polls-show-shift-public-opinion-about-trayvon-martins-shooter

    • PeterO. you are indeed a buffoon. I think people on this site realize gradually that reacting to your imbecilic comments is more than a huge waste of time (because that, inter alia, is what keeps you go on and on and on with your nonsense – nonstop).

    • Intel, move to Chicago where the gang-bangers have taken over in many neighborhoods and the murder rate has soared.

      While I never watch Geraldo, this is one of the few times I agree with him:

      Geraldo Rivera Uses Chicago Murder Spike to Say He ‘Was Right About the Hoodie’

      http://www.theblaze.com/stories/geraldo-rivera-uses-chicago-murder-spike-to-say-he-was-right-about-the-hoodie/

      Trayvon, was a wannabe gang-banger thug in training who violently attacked a man just trying to help his neighborhood … and who lawfully defended himself in desperation.

  17. I’m finding that a lot of the folks in George’s corner were victims at some point of a violent crime. I think they are in need of a hero of sorts. One person whom I’ve come in contact with is always saying George is a hero. this person had shot a teenager twice in the chest while he was trying to break into his car. He does need to George to be a hero, because he needs to feel he was justified in doing what he did in order to sleep at night. Most of the over zealous folks anyway, have been hurt by someone violently. One has a brother who was shot and killed. His murderers were never found. I do feel these “victims” have come out of hiding to support George, so they can feel a bit of justification for their anger and fear and reason why they carry a weapon. They want to feel it is alright to kill, if they are ever placed in a position to defend. So of course, they are going to support what they too would do if they are ever a “victim” again. However, they are looking at it blindly. Only supporting their agenda and not the facts. Fact is; Trayvon was the victim, just like they were. But by carrying a weapon now, they have changed their position. It’s an odd twist to the mentality of the Zimmerman supporters. Their weapon makes them oblivious to the victim. Their weapon has replaced their fear of being a victim. Who ever uses it for “protecting”…just like they WOULD, is always going to be right. They have to be; otherwise they become a victim mentally fearing the kill, rather than fearing the attack. And they would rather kill, that be a victim ever again. They live in fear in general.

    • Martin wasn’t trying to break into Zimmerman’s car when he was shot.

      Martin was trying to kill or maim Zimmerman for “staring” at him when he was shot.

  18. Some more quotes, from the Geraldo article, (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/geraldo-rivera-uses-chicago-murder-spike-to-say-he-was-right-about-the-hoodie/ ) that most Americans agree with completely:

    “According to the Associated Press, murders in Chicago are up 38 percent from last year, part of escalating gang warfare. Rivera slammed the NAACP and the Rev. Al Sharpton for being so vocal about Martin’s death while ignoring the carnage.

    “Where is that same feeling of concern in Chicago where 275 African-American kids have killed each other this year alone,” Rivera demanded. “Where is Jesse Jackson? It’s his home town. Where is Al Sharpton? Where is the protest? Where is the concern?””

    • PeterO., on this site participants discuss LAW and academics NOT fallacious polemics and sickening racial politics. Obviously you do not have the intellectual know-how, the élan and/or the willingness to engage in the former and/or stay on topic and do as such not belong here. Pls. go away, you are a nuisance here!

      BTW, I wonder why you think that any mediocre such as Rivera who on the one hand has failed to distinguish himself within the legal community as an intellectual force to reckon with and on the other hand resorts to barking out erant, fallacious polemics on Fox News to gain attention, has to be taken seriously by any participant on this site!

    • Intel said: “PeterO., on this site participants discuss LAW and academics NOT fallacious polemics and sickening racial politics.”

      ***on this site participants discuss LAW and academics NOT fallacious polemics and sickening racial politics.

      Regarding Geraldo:

      Wake up!

      If Geraldo has gone over to the other side of the fence, you can be ABSOLUTELY SURE he checked the public pulse first!

  19. Dear Susan, THERE IS A NEW BOMBSHELL IN THE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL SAGA. GZ is asking for a new judge! THIS IS A NEW MIGHTY LEGAL TOPIC that is weighty enough to be written on discussed on this site. Is it possible for you, Susan, to reflect on this huge legal topic from the point of view of the fundamental, general principles of law, such as: judicial independence, judicial impartiality, judicial impropriety and the appearance thereof, the right of a defendant to a fair trial, the grounds under which a judge could be required to recuse her/himself, etc. Would it also be possible for you, Susan, to ruminate on the question of whether or not the reasons given by MO’M in his motion requesting the trial judge to recuse himself, constitutes any grounds for recusal – given that (a) the judgment of the court (which is the reason for the motion) is appealable and the defendant can in fact appeal that judgment if he disagrees with it (b) MO’M apparently has decided not to appeal that judgment, as a result of which (c) that judgment may have become conclusive, final and binding?

    • Intel!

      Susan isn’t a cow!

      Maybe you will have more luck with your useless questions at Nancy Grace’s website.

    • @Intel –

      It would be interesting to get Susan’s take on that. Also, have you taken a look at the new evidence docs released this week? If you haven’t, I encourage you to do it. Some of the info is truly shocking. (Hint: former deputy Osterman)

    • PeterO. obviously you neither have any appreciation for- nor the ability to grasp those abstract but very beautiful legal principles and theories upon which our positive law (and I doubt you know what that is) is founded and without which an organize civilized society will be(come) an illusion. I understand discussing such – in your own words – “useless questions” that form the primary pillars of our legal system can be a very dry, abstract mental exercise and as such intellectually challenging to you. But exactly ‘that’ provides further proof that you do not belong here. On this site participants discuss LAW and the philosophy thereof and try to apply it to an actual societal problem. It appears you are intrinsically incapable of doing that.

      Furthermore, you PLAGIARIZE other peoples’ writings and paste them on this site (something you have partly acknowledged in the past) with a breathtaking frequency. Thieves of any kind of property (intellectual or not) are not allowed on this site. I think Susan should start banning such thieves from selling their stolen goods here.

      It also seems you are quite OBSESSED with “THE WIFE” of Judge Lester (! ) and “DeeDee”. The way you have piled/pile on this two women in your former postings suggests that you might be mentally unstable (ask any psychiatrist).

    • CommonSenseForChange, thanks for the referral. I have seen the evidence you referred to. I also reread GZ’s written statements on the night of the shooting and compared them again with his re-enactments thereafter. I think Mr. Osterman (and I believe he coached GZ on what (not) to say and how to deal with the SPD) in his quest to help out a friend ultimately led GZ down a dangerous part that GZ could not and cannot control anymore: different accounts of ‘what happened’ that are not only mutually exclusive in relation to one another but also not supported by objective physical evidence known so far. It will be very interesting to know exactly at what point Mr. Osterman really got involved in this case and if he (Mr. Osterman) had any conversations with any member of the SPD prior to the arrest of GZ and if yes, with whom, what was discussed and agreed upon, etc. I find it amazing/telling that chief Bill Lee was forced out of the SPD with his tail between his legs: he (Bill Lee) never fought back or protested for once and he did not even get any meaningful severance package. I wonder why he accepted to go so quietly – without a wimp!

      On the advice of Susan (or at least someone who posted here as ‘anonymous’), I have also visited the website http://www.imgur.com What I read there (and Susan has essentially made that point before) is really jaw-dropping: if you believe GZ, then you must by NECESSITY also believe that WHILE GZ WAS ON THE PHONE WITH THE POLICE DISPATCHER, TM confronted and knocked GZ to the ground, bash GZ’s head repeatedly on the concrete side walk and GZ shot TM in self-defense. It is not at all difficult to understand why MO’M cannot mount an SYG-hearing (any time soon) – despite his phony loud cries that GZ acted in self-defense and that TM “killed himself!”.

      On a side note, I would have acted – as Mr. Osterman did – to help out a friend by providing him shelter – in all circumstances. But I think Mr. Osterman, gave GZ a very bad advice (and even coached him as to what and what not to say). The best advice GZ needed was: ‘say noting and get a lawyer, immediately’. But Osterman, being as corrupt as he is, thought he could “fix” this one. And they almost got away with it – had Ms. Fulton, like any other loving mother, not said: no.

      • “On the advice of Susan (or at least someone who posted here as ‘anonymous’), I have also visited the website http://www.imgur.com What I read there (and Susan has essentially made that point before) is really jaw-dropping: if you believe GZ, then you must by NECESSITY also believe that WHILE GZ WAS ON THE PHONE WITH THE POLICE DISPATCHER, TM confronted and knocked GZ to the ground, bash GZ’s head repeatedly on the concrete side walk and GZ shot TM in self-defense. It is not at all difficult to understand why MO’M cannot mount an SYG-hearing (any time soon) – despite his phony loud cries that GZ acted in self-defense and that TM “killed himself!”. ”

        Your posts are becoming increasingly shrill and irrational.

        (and around here, that’s saying something)

        You can tell when Susan posts, because at the top of the comment it says

        Susan Simpson

        It does not say

        Anonymous

        I’m guessing the imgur link you meant was

        It’s not the only page at imgur.com, so you have to be specific.

        Zimmerman’s phone call to the police ran from 7:09:34 PM to 7:13:39 PM.

        The general consensus, which Susan shares, is that the struggle began about 7:15:30 PM, almost 2 minutes after Zimmerman’s call ended.

        Zimmerman’s account of events does a very poor job of filling in what happened in that time, but there’s nothing about his account that requires the call to have gone on longer than it did or the struggle to have started during the call.

        unitron

    • Unitron, I disagree with your statements. And I put I to you, firstly, that the said statements are fallacious. You stated that “your posts are becoming shrill and irrational”. Yet you can only point to ONE statement which IN YOUR opinion could be characterized as such. You do agree with me that here (without going into the merits of your characterization) there is a fallacy of exaggeration on your part.

      I also CORRECTLY referred to a post from “anonymous @ Susan Simpson”. It is not possible for me to tell if ‘Susan Simpson’ and ‘anonymous’ are two different persons). In any case, it cannot be understood by at least any average thinking person why that amounts to your characterization that “your posts are becoming shrill and irrational”.

      The telephone conversation between the dispatcher and GZ lasted for over 4minutes. The description of ‘what happened’ according to GZ starting from when he first called the NEN and when he shot TM could be placed well within 4minutes – by a laboratory-type independent re-enactment. Again, it cannot be understood by any average thinking person why this analysis mine is “becoming shrill and irrational”.

      Lastly, I have always appreciated your postings as thoughtful. But this posting of yours comes across as quite erratic, crude and vengeful – what’s going on, Unitron?

      • What’s going on is that you are turning into another PeterO.

        Go read your posts on the Martin/Zimmerman topic from 2 and 3 months ago.

        Then read your recent ones.

        I find it difficult to believe it’s even the same person.

        unitron

    • Unitron, on a side note, I also know that you are a regular participant on the Jeralyn-site. It appears that you are one of the very few “lone-soldiers” among a magnitude of bickering cult-members at that site. I commend you for your consistent thought-process there and elsewhere and advice you to be less timid. A timid lawyer is the worst thing that can befall a man in legal distress. I would also very much appreciate it if you structure your postings in a proper manner or at least understandable way. Your use of ‘brackets’ and ‘paragraphs’, etc. is quite confusing and certain “sentences” are in fact phrase that make one scratch his head trying to figure out exactly what you mean.

    • Just an FYI, the “anonymous” wasn’t me. I did accidentally have a few anonymous comments that I made when I was posting on the fly and forgot to log in, but I believe I’ve corrected all those.

  20. Maybe I should first say where we are. I think at just about the same point Serino

    was in March. We have a homicide where the killer claims self defense and there are

    no witnesses to directly contradict that claim. The shooter’s story has a number of

    exaggerations, omissions and self contradictions but seemingly there is not enough to

    overcome the burden of showing, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the shooter was doing

    something illegal, like trying to detain the victim, or believed he had options of

    surviving without serious harm if he didn’t shoot. The injuries, witness statements,

    forensics, timelines, etc are consistent with both self defense and possible

    manslaughter scenarios but that doesn’t come close to satisfying the burden of proof

    of the prosecution.

    Serino’s betters have decided to go ahead with a charge of Murder 2 where it seems

    they don’t have anything essentially more than he did. Apparently in Florida,

    overcharging with Murder 2 instead of Manslaughter has few dangers for the

    prosecution.

    So was the charging nothing more than a political stunt or does the prosecution have a

    chance for victory? The only thing I can imagine them having, waiting in the wings,

    are character witnesses for Martin: teachers, teammates, coaches, friends, clergyman,

    employers, etc, who would testify that the behavior attributed to Martin by Zimmerman

    is in their view, impossible. So maybe in the future there will be another evidence

    dump with their affidavits.

  21. Maybe I should first say where we are. I think at just about the same point Serino
    was in March. We have a homicide where the killer claims self defense and there are
    no witnesses to directly contradict that claim. The shooter’s story has a number of
    exaggerations, omissions and self contradictions but seemingly there is not enough to
    overcome the burden of showing, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the shooter was doing
    something illegal, like trying to detain the victim, or believed he had options of
    surviving without serious harm if he didn’t shoot. The injuries, witness statements,
    forensics, timelines, etc are consistent with both self defense and possible
    manslaughter scenarios but that doesn’t come close to satisfying the burden of proof
    of the prosecution.

    Serino’s betters have decided to go ahead with a charge of Murder 2 where it seems
    they don’t have anything essentially more than he did. Apparently in Florida,
    overcharging with Murder 2 instead of Manslaughter has few dangers for the
    prosecution.

    So was the charging nothing more than a political stunt or does the prosecution have a
    chance for victory? The only thing I can imagine them having, waiting in the wings,
    are character witnesses for Martin: teachers, teammates, coaches, friends, clergyman,
    employers, etc, who would testify that the behavior attributed to Martin by Zimmerman
    is in their view, impossible. So maybe in the future there will be another evidence
    dump with their affidavits.

  22. Maybe I should first say where we are. I think at just about the same point Serino was in March. We have a homicide where the killer claims self defense and there are no witnesses to directly contradict that claim. The shooter’s story has a number of exaggerations, omissions and self contradictions but seemingly there is not enough to overcome the burden of showing, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the shooter was doing something illegal, like trying to detain the victim, or believed he had options of surviving without serious harm if he didn’t shoot. The injuries, witness statements, forensics, timelines, etc are consistent with both self defense and possible manslaughter scenarios but that doesn’t come close to satisfying the burden of proof of the prosecution.

    Serino’s betters have decided to go ahead with a charge of Murder 2 where it seems they don’t have anything essentially more than he did. Apparently in Florida, overcharging with Murder 2 instead of Manslaughter has few dangers for the prosecution.

    So was the charging nothing more than a political stunt or does the prosecution have a chance for victory? The only thing I can imagine them having, waiting in the wings, are character witnesses for Martin: teachers, teammates, coaches, friends, clergyman, employers, etc, who would testify that the behavior attributed to Martin by Zimmerman is in their view, impossible. So maybe in the future there will be another evidence dump with their affidavits.

    • If they bring in a character witness for Martin, that opens the window for Martin’s tweets, Fight Club videos, school history (fighting, detentions, etc.) and fascination with MMA fighting.

      We just had an incident near me where a woman was looking out for her neighborhood, Wendy Fisher telling a car to slow down, ended up with a 17yo shooting her in broad daylight with many witnesses including her children for disrespecting his friend that was driving. Trayon Washington has now left 2 children orphaned because he thought he was being dissed by a person looking out for their neighborhood. If you actually think a 17yo is a helpless little kid you may want to rethink that.

    • At this point, all I am waiting for is DeeDee’s phone records.

      You can be sure that from the trend that the later the discovery information is released, the more it benefits Zimmerman, will continue.

    • “[T]he window for Martin’s tweets, Fight Club videos, school history (fighting, detentions, etc.) and fascination with MMA fighting.” is always open to the defense. Private detectives are already at work for the defense.

  23. Here is the official motion against Judge Lester, I knew there was a problem when he said there was strong evidence in an official document. From the cases cited in this document Judge Lester has no choice but to recuse himself, and another judge hear the motion for dismissal and immunity. Ricky is right this does bring us full circle back to the PC affidavit and the initial bond hearing where Gilbreath admitted he had no contradictory evidence.

    http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/motion%20to%20disqualify%20Judge%20Lester.pdf

  24. Why SYG will survive:

    This horrific and scary report was from one of the burglaries at Zimmerman’s complex, just a few months before the shooting. It was contained in the new discovery batch released:

    “On 08/03/11 at approximately 1102 hours, I responded to ___ Retreat View Cir in reference to a suspicious person. Sanford Dispatch advised that the caller NM (victim), could hear people inside her residence (I. Retreat View Cir). … Sgt. Jankowaki advised that the rear sliding glass door was open (entry/exit point). …. NM then provided a sworn written statement of the following information. On 08/03/11 at approximately 1.100 hours, she heard a knock at the front door, then she heard the door bell. NM did not have a way to look out the front door, so she went upstairs and looked out the
    window, where she could see the outside of the front of her residence (__ Retreat View Cir). She saw a black male adult (wearing a blue shirt, and block shorts, with a short hair cut) standing at the front of the residence, ringing the door bell end knocking on the front door. She advised that she did not open the front door, because she did not know the person. A few moments later NM again heard a knock at the front dear, followed by tie door bell. She looked out the window again and noticed the same black male adult (this time the blue shirt was over his shoulder and he was wearing a black tank top), with another black male adult also wearing a black tank top and black shorts.

    NM said that she then called the pollee when she saw one of the unknown black males walk up to the rear sliding glass door of her residence. She then ran upstairs and locked herself into the bedroom. NM advised that she could hear people inside her residence, and could see the door knob moving to the room that she was hiding. NM said that she could hear them walking down the stairs when the police were knocking on the front door.”

    Personally, if I had a gun, and this happened in my home, I would have shot first and asked questions later. And most others would have done exactly the same thing. Zimmerman will end up a hero after this is all over.

  25. About the OM motion to recuse Judge Lester. Here are two of my comments a month ago, made on the “minute-by-minute” posting, that remain appropriate:

    PeterO on June 13, 2012 at 12:33 am said:

    “Judge Lester’s statement ““the evidence against [Zimmerman] is strong.” [is] all the more incredible.

    In my post: “June 12, 2012 at 7:58 pm said:” I pointed out that every piece of “evidence” — the dispatcher tape, the witnesses on balance, the respective damage to Zimmerman and Martin from the fight part of the confrontation, and the police acceptance of self-defense after hearing Zimmerman’s statement — all not only were in Zimmerman’s favor under the beyond reasonable doubt standard also under a preponderance of evidence standard.

    So what is the State’s entire case? DeeDee! The fundamental foundation of the State’s probable cause case was DeeDee, the “eyewitness” who “saw” it all: the hunt, the wild breathless chases, the “cornering” of Martin (who was in abject fear) by the “crazy” white guy, and the ultimate attack of Martin by the “crazy” guy…. Judge Lester has set himself up for considerable later embarrassment and should recuse himself immediately. He never should have made that statement.

    As a side note, up until the Lester statement, the worst “finding” of guilt by a judge I have seen was during the notorious Amanda Knox murder trial in Italy. A magistrate found Amanda and her boy friend guilty because the admitted perpetrator could not have gotten through a window by himself. Soon after, every yahoo in town was taking a ladder lying nearby and climbing through the window and it was happening so often that a guard had to be placed to stop it. Judge’s can, and do make fools of themselves.”

    PeterO on June 13, 2012 at 2:38 am said:

    “Here is a recent posting on recusal standards in Florida: http://www.floridalegalblog.org/2009/04/judge-should-recuse-himself-if-party.html

    Judge Lester made finding about the merits of a case based on a probable cause affidavit and argument that, itself, was based on evidence the defendant never had a chance even see, let alone dispute. Yet, he accepted as proven, enough of the probable cause affidavit to make a pronouncement on the merits of the case. He ruled: “the evidence against [Zimmerman] is strong.”

    Zimmerman’s clearly would have a well grounded fear of bias on the part of Judge Lester after the Judge made that statement and that is a basis for recusal.

    Moreover, that finding could provide grounds for a sufficient Constitutional violation to overturn any guilty verdict on appeal. Judge Lester never should have made that statement.”

    Judge Lester is off the case.

    • From the looks of this O’Mara has sufficiently met the burden of showing Zimmerman has reason to believe he will not get a fair trial from Judge Lester, whether this is actually true or not is irrelevant. It looks like Judge Lester will have to grant the motion.

      —–
      Rule 2.330(f) requires a judge to enter a n order granting disqualification if the motion to disqualify is “legally sufficient.” The motion is legally sufficient if it shows the party’s well-grounded fear that the party will not receive a fair trial. See Enter. Leasing Co. v. Jones, 789 So. 2d 964, 968 (Fla. 2001); Livingston v. State, 441 So. 2d 1083, 1087 (Fla. 1983). It is not a question of what the judge feels, but the feeling in the mind of the party seeking to disqualify and the basis for that feeling. See Goines v. State, 708 So. 2d 656, 659 (Fla. 4th DCA 1998) (“[T]he facts underlying the well-grounded fear must be judged from the perspective of the moving party.”), disagreed with on other grounds by Thompson v. State, 949 So. 2d 1169 (Fla. 1st DCA 2007), quashed, 990 So. 2d 482 (Fla. 2008); Wargo v. Wargo, 669 So. 2d 1123, 1124 (Fla. 4th DCA 1996). Of course, the party seeking disqualification has the burden of showing that the party has a well-grounded fear of not receiving a fair trial. See Adkins v. Winkler, 592 So. 2d 357 (Fla. 1st DCA 1992).

      —–

      My question is how will this affect the Shellie Zimmerman case? If Corey was trying to use Shellie as leverage to force a Plea Bargain out of George Zimmerman did it just backfire? Does she also have the option open using a similar motion to show that she is being used against her husband after she kept telling BDLR to ask a specific named person that could be made available during the first Bond Hearing?

    • The SZ case is a separate issue.

      The fundamental problem with the SZ case is, as you mention, the fact that she immediately gave the name of the party with the information. And the prosecutor never attempted to get that information.

      I find it impossible to believe a perjury conviction could ever be obtained under those circumstances. Judge Lester went way way overboard in his statements and rulings — I believe the fact that his wife is a homicide prosecutor in next door Orange County played a big role in how he acted.

      There is a ZERO chance of SZ being found guilty of perjury on this because her rejected attempts to provide the person who had the “current balances” was more than enough to disprove perjury. No one can disprove beyond a reasonable doubt that she, in her mind, believed she was being asked for the “current balance” and not the amounts days ago when those amounts were subject to variation in a matter of days.

      The key to a perjury conviction is what SZ believed in her mind. NOT what anti Zimmermanites believe and wish for in their minds.

  26. @Susan Simpson
    Interesting friends GZ has. Mark Osterman. Interview with FDLE. page 78

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/13/2893981/air-marshal-took-zimmerman-in.html

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-08-18/news/9808170587_1_juan-diaz-osterman-diaz-romero

    https://www.facebook.com/mark.osterman.1

    osterman and RZ parked near truck 1;05 MARK

    http://skydancingblog.com/2012/05/25/open-thread-new-police-video-of-george-zimmerman/

  27. @susan Simpson

    Interesting friends GZ has. Mark Osterman.
    Page 78 of scrib interview with FDLE

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/13/2893981/air-marshal-took-zimmerman-in.html
    Fired from sheriffs office,
    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-08-18/news/9808170587_1_juan-diaz-osterman-diaz-romero

    https://www.facebook.com/mark.osterman.1

    http://skydancingblog.com/2012/05/25/open-thread-new-police-video-of-george-zimmerman/
    Screenshot of his friend at M& I bank cameras.

  28. Ricky J/Ricky Jimenez, you COPY and PASTE on this site other’s thoughts expressed in writing elsewhere. That is PLAGIARISM and DISHONESTY and an act of THEFT. And you can’t even paste well – suggesting you are NOT extremely smart. I think that you promptly need to get off this site and go back to ghettosite you come from: theconservativetreehouse.com.

    PeterO. also plagiarizes, but he at least (be it sometimes) acknowledges he plagiarized (be it that he does not divulge the name of the individuals he plagiarized/plagiarizes from, copies and pastes on this site).

    I also noticed that “inspgadget” is a participant on the said neo-nazi site: theconservativetreehouse.com where he happily sings with the choir there. One participant on that site even wrote the following: “free George Zimmerman, Sieg Heil, Sieg Heil”!

    Honestly I do not know what these three fools (RickyJ/Jimenez., PeterO. and inspgadget) are doing here. Academic discussion of legal issues is becoming increasingly impossible on this site.

    • PeterO. at least you DO NOT deny being a PLAGIARIST (!). My point is then well made (and if you do deny in the future, I WILL NAIL YOU! That’s what lawyers do.). Plagiarism is a form of theft.

    • Intel — I’ll admit I haven’t spent much time looking about the Conservative Treehouse, but I figure if it actually had neo-nazi inclinations it would be a little more apparent. No need for name calling of that sort.

      If there is plagiarism going on, though, please knock it off, people. Feel free to cite, but say where it comes from.

      • Susan, I think it really is time for a fresh Zimmerman thread. This one’s getting loooooooong and tangled.

        unitron

  29. Well, I just have to say something about this new molestation twist.

    First, it seems to me that as long as accusations about Trayvon’s character continue to be on the table, then I see no reason why these new accusations against Zimmerman should not be on the table as well. As far as these things coming up in court, I can see this happening, because Zimmerman’s word is a crucial component of the case.

    Another thought: Will other women come out as well? #9 says she knows of at least one other woman. And what about the needy kids that Zimmerman was so generously visiting with?

    What will Zimmerman supporters say about this poor woman? They’ve completely mauled DeeDee, consistently calling her a dumb liar, and posting her picture all over the place. To me, this appears to be blatant witness intimidation. So far, with #9, they’re just blaming the media for not stressing hard enough that Zimmerman started molesting when he was still just a child. And that the age difference was ONLY 2 years. Sorry, but most women know that as children, a boy 2 years older than us is a HUGE difference.

    It will be difficult for Zimmerman supporters to say #9 lied about it, because her parents confronted him and he apologized – before making his quick exit. Plus, her treatment by at least some Zimmerman supporters may be different because she’s probably not black.

    One other minor observation (minor, compared to this latest bombshell): In O’Mara’s request for a new judge, he admits that Zimmerman’s parents mortgaged their house to pay for Zimmerman’s bond. Meanwhile, Zimmerman’s wife was busy trying to hide his money in her own account, and is now charged with perjury over it.

    Amazing that so many Zimmerman supporters seem to KNOW that Trayvon must have attacked Zimmerman, because they KNOW that Trayvon was that kind of guy. They appear to not even consider – even in the face of all the lies, the violent background, and now even these new accusations of sexual harrassment – that Zimmerman may have followed and confronted Trayvon, because Zimmerman was just that kind of guy. I’m not saying that’s any kind of hard evidence, but the inconsistency of thought is rather glaring.

    On O’Mara’s bid for a new judge: It appears to me that O’Mara may be seeking to please potential donors who will be paying his tab – even to the possible detriment of his own client. Before filing his request for a new judge, O’Mara recently went onto the ConservativeTreeHouse blog to explain to all those lovely people why he had not been more assertive with the judge during Zimmerman’s second bond hearing.

    This really makes me wonder if any of those people really care about Zimmerman at all. Doubt it.

    • First, it seems to me that as long as accusations about Trayvon’s character continue to be on the table, then I see no reason why these new accusations against Zimmerman should not be on the table as well. As far as these things coming up in court, I can see this happening, because Zimmerman’s word is a crucial component of the case.

      The molestation accusations are largely irrelevant as far as the murder charges against Zimmerman go. But in terms of understanding Zimmerman’s background, from a completely non-legal perspective, it’s hard not to think Witness 9’s testimony is pretty telling.

      Trayvon’s death can also be viewed as another tragic consequence of the cycle of abuse. From prior interviews/accounts, Zimmerman seems to have come from a household that was at least occasionally abusive, if not frequently so. But given Witness 9’s story… well, as far as I’m aware, the general consensus is that 8 year olds who engage in sexually abusive behaviors have, in most cases, learned those behaviors from someone else. It seems likely Zimmerman had a very rough childhood himself.

      Before filing his request for a new judge, O’Mara recently went onto the ConservativeTreeHouse blog to explain to all those lovely people why he had not been more assertive with the judge during Zimmerman’s second bond hearing.

      Seriously? Okay, that’s enough to actually make me want to head over to that site and take a look… any chance you’ve got a link to that discussion handy? Or know the date of the blog post where this occurred?

  30. More “plagiarized” content “stolen” from Jeralyn’s talkleft.com website:

    The following starts to unravel the bizarre trashing of Serino, who as it turns out, believed there were no grounds to arrest Zimmerman. No wonder Serino was demoted! He is therefore a very powerful witness FOR Zimmerman and now is under the thumb of the prosecutor who can ruin his career if he doesn’t “change” his “testimony” at trial. Why wasn’t Sgt. Barns investigated? Here is what Jeralyn uncovered:

    “In Sanford Investigator Chris Serino’s 2 page interview with the FBI, he says he felt pressure from three officers to charge Zimmerman, even though he didn’t feel there was enough evidence to charge. He didn’t believe Zimmerman was motivated by racial bias. The Miami Herald article is here (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510_p2/more-evidence-released-in-zimmerman.html), and Serino’s FBI interview is here (http://talkleft.com/zimm/serinofbireporthigh.pdf).

    According to Serino, one of the cops pressuring hims was a Sgt. Barns, who Serino said is a friend of Tracy Martin’s. Barns even asked Serino for Martin’s phone number. Serino says he ended up getting it from somewhere else. My likely suspect: Team Crump.

    Serino told the FBI this during a discussion about his concern that officers were leaking information.

    Serino also told the FBI that he didn’t think George was racist, but that he may have had something of a “hero complex”. [More…]

    Barns, in his own interview, doesn’t mention he’s friends with Tracy Martin. His focal point is on the potential racial uprising if no charges are brought.

    On March 13, Crump team member Natalie Jackson is quoted in the Orlando Sentinel as saying:

    “Racism is too simple. It may have been a factor,” said family attorney Natalie Jackson. But also to blame was Zimmerman’s “hero complex.” He should never have gotten out of his vehicle and confronted Trayvon, she said.

    Serino’s interview was on March 3. Her comment reported in the Orlando Sentinel was on March 13. Who leaked Serino’s statement to Team Crump?

    Coincidence? Not in my mind.”

    Speculation is that this now puts Matt Gutman’s “accidental” “outing” of Serino as his “source” in an entirely different light — it may well have been on purpose, to aid Crump, in discrediting Serino who is a powerful witness for Zimmerman. Reporters do NOT “out” their sources … it had to be deliberate. Why is there no investigation of Sgt. Barns who certainly, at least indirectly, lied to the FBI in a manner similar to the accusations against GZ and SZ, by withholding key information about his direct and indirect contacts with Tracy Martin and/or Crump.

  31. Hi Susan, I will certainly defer to your opinion about the relevance of the molestation charges! You’re probably correct. Also, I think that IF Zimmerman was abused as a child, this is definitely very sad.

    As for the conservativetreehouse blog, I learned about this yesterday when I came upon a youtube video called “Conservativetreehouse bearing fruits/nuts?”:

    The actual conservativetreehouse page that includes an email from O’Mara is at:

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/07/02/gzthecouragious-e-mailed-mark-omara-omara-responds/

    After reviewing it today, it seems that one of the conservativetreehouse bloggers emailed O’Mara with concerns about O’Mara’s performance at the bond hearing. O’Mara responded to the blogger with praise for the conservativetreehouse blog and asked the blogger to “pass on” O’Mara’s response. O’Mara also suggested setting up a chat with conservativetreehouse bloggers to respond to questions, while maintaining “a level of security over the communications”. (!)

    Here’s O’Mara’s email:

    “I sincerely appreciate the criticism… there are many more nuances to consider regarding the presentation, and I will respond in more detail… I truly appreciate all the great work done by everyone over there so far, and really take ur comments to heart… rest assured the presentation was metered for very specific purposes, as this is a long-game approach the bull dog mentality would be premature…. goal for today is to get him out, that’s all…… I will respond better shortly….

    Pls pass on, and I would like to c if we could set up a chat session so I could respond directly to q’s.. just need to maintain a level of security over the communications…”

    ————————————————————————–

    In my opinion, O’Mara could be doing this as a public relations bid to retain their support and continue to receive donations. Anyone with half a brain would know that a more assertive approach at the second bond hearing would not have been in Zimmerman’s best interests, but it appears that at least some of the bloggers over there think O’Mara feels he could benefit from their advice.

    The video discussing this was at the top of google’s list in a search of “video, Zimmerman, conservativetreehouse”. It’s also on “thegrio” and “Democratic Underground.”

    Susan, what is your take on this? It seems somewhat unprofessional to me – or something.

    • HP blurts in a matter-of-fact manner:

      “After reviewing it today, it seems that one of the conservativetreehouse bloggers”

      Someone who posted on that site had sent an e-mail to O’Mara. I doubt very much that Susan would consider you or me to be an LL2 “blogger”

    • There ought to be a law that any attorney caught using “ur” or “c” in professional correspondence is immediately stripped of their admission to any bar in the United States. Reading that e-mail makes me cringe inside.

      I hope it’s a fake. If it’s real, then Zimmerman needs a new attorney asap, no one deserves to be represented by someone who would type like that.

    • Susan, it DOES seem weird for O’Mara to use “ur” and “c”. Maybe this IS a fake. I wonder if he’ll say anything about it. May it’s real and this was his attempt at fitting in with the crowd. No way to know at this point I guess.

  32. The following starts to unravel the bizarre trashing of Serino, who as it turns out, believed there were no grounds to arrest Zimmerman. No wonder Serino was demoted! He is therefore a very powerful witness FOR Zimmerman and now is under the thumb of the prosecutor who can ruin his career if he doesn’t “change” his “testimony” at trial. Why wasn’t Sgt. Barns investigated? Here is what Jeralyn at talkleft.com uncovered:

    “In Sanford Investigator Chris Serino’s 2 page interview with the FBI, he says he felt pressure from three officers to charge Zimmerman, even though he didn’t feel there was enough evidence to charge. He didn’t believe Zimmerman was motivated by racial bias. The Miami Herald article is here (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510_p2/more-evidence-released-in-zimmerman.html), and Serino’s FBI interview is here (___).

    According to Serino, one of the cops pressuring hims was a Sgt. Barns, who Serino said is a friend of Tracy Martin’s. Barns even asked Serino for Martin’s phone number. Serino says he ended up getting it from somewhere else. My likely suspect: Team Crump.

    Serino told the FBI this during a discussion about his concern that officers were leaking information.

    Serino also told the FBI that he didn’t think George was racist, but that he may have had something of a “hero complex”. [More…]

    Barns, in his own interview, doesn’t mention he’s friends with Tracy Martin. His focal point is on the potential racial uprising if no charges are brought.

    On March 13, Crump team member Natalie Jackson is quoted in the Orlando Sentinel as saying:

    “Racism is too simple. It may have been a factor,” said family attorney Natalie Jackson. But also to blame was Zimmerman’s “hero complex.” He should never have gotten out of his vehicle and confronted Trayvon, she said.

    Serino’s interview was on March 3. Her comment reported in the Orlando Sentinel was on March 13. Who leaked Serino’s statement to Team Crump?

    Coincidence? Not in my mind.”

    Speculation is that this now puts Matt Gutman’s “accidental” “outing” of Serino as his “source” in an entirely different light — it may well have been on purpose, to aid Crump, in discrediting Serino who is a powerful witness for Zimmerman. Reporters do NOT “out” their sources … it had to be deliberate. Why is there no investigation of Sgt. Barns who certainly, at least indirectly, lied to the FBI in a manner similar to the accusations against GZ and SZ, by withholding key information about his direct and indirect contacts with Tracy Martin and/or Crump.

    • Serino’s FBI interview (124 or 284) was probably April 3. Early April was when the other FBI interviews were done, and it was transcribed on April 5. In the FBI report, he refers to his March 12 report.

      The 2nd page of the Serino interview with the FBI was not released, and that is apparently where Serino suggests 3 leakers.

      There is a quite lengthy FBI interview with Sgt. Barns about racial aspects of the case – even though it appears he had essentially nothing to do with the case (he is in the property crimes division, which would put investigation of burglaries, so he probably knew a lot about Emmanuel Burgess). The FBI appears to focused on trying to unearth a racial angle. So you have inane questions about the Twin Lake area and racial tensions. Barns had grown up in Sanford and been with SPD for 25 years. He says that the Twin Lake area used to be farming area (it is actually on the extreme western edge of Sanford which just goes to I-4).

    • You realize that, from all available evidence and correspondence, it appears that Serino firmly believed that Zimmerman was a liar who wrongfully killed an innocent kid? He is not a witness in Zimmerman’s favor.

      Also, on a side note, whether or not Zimmerman is a racist is irrelevant to any larger significance that this case may have as a political issue on a state or national level. Regardless of whether Zimmerman personally displayed any unusual levels of racial animus, the more significant potentially racist behavior was done by the Sanford city government, when it decided that the killing of an unarmed black teenager was not worth fully investigating.

      • “…when it decided that the killing of an unarmed black teenager was not worth fully investigating.”

        Did they really decide that?

        Or did it just appear that way from the outside?

        I know they couldn’t charge him that night because they couldn’t immediately dis-prove self-defense, and there’s that pesky provision in Florida law, but it seems they kept on, going back and re-interviewing witnesses in March, and if they could have gotten into his phone sooner, they could have gotten to the young lady before Crump or BDLR did.

        By March 20, Wolfinger was ready to take it to the grand jury (before the governor threw him under the bus), so it’s not like they totally gave up on it.

        unitron

    • Susan Simpson says:

      “the more significant potentially racist behavior was done by the Sanford city government, when it decided that the killing of an unarmed black teenager was not worth fully investigating.”

      What evidence is there of this?

  33. Oops, meant to reply to Jimrtex. Here’s the article from thegrio:

    http://thegrio.com/2012/07/16/zimmermans-lawyer-seek-a-chat-with-conservative-bloggers/#s:screen-shot-2012-07-13-at-7-42-04-pm

    I couldn’t help but notice that thegrio called the same guy a “blogger”. I guess maybe I’m missing something here. Is this an incorrect usage of the term, “blogger”? Not that it matters, but I’d just like to speak appropriately, if at all possible.

    What, no comment from Petey or Jimmer about child molesting?

    • I guess blogger implies some form of ownership over the blog, whereas “commenter” or “poster” would identify a participant.

      It was pretty clear what you meant in context, though.

    • Fernie,

      I couldn’t help but notice that thegrio called the same guy a “blogger”.

      Maybe you could send a correction. They were probably just sloppy in their characterization.

    • Susan Simpson said:

      “Seriously? Okay, that’s enough to actually make me want to head over to that site and take a look… any chance you’ve got a link to that discussion handy? Or know the date of the blog post where this occurred?”

      “I guess blogger implies some form of ownership over the blog, whereas “commenter” or “poster” would identify a participant.”

      I thought your first response implied that you thought it was some sort of official posting. They seem to be pretty wary of any official contact with anyone.

  34. Susan said: “Regardless of whether Zimmerman personally displayed any unusual levels of racial animus, the more significant potentially racist behavior was done by the Sanford city government, when it decided that the killing of an unarmed black teenager was not worth fully investigating.”

    ***This, of course, is what all the critics of pursuing a losing case against Zimmerman, that had an obvious, unbeatable self-defense claim: $$$$$$$$$. For Crump and crew.

    The CIVIL RIGHT LAWSUIT!!!! BIG DOLLARS!!!! THE BIG LOSERS ARE THE CITIZENS OF SANFORD AND, IN PARTICULAR, MINORITIES WHO WILL BEAR THE BRUNT OF THE RESULTING FISCAL CUTBACKS — INCLUDING CUTBACKS IN POLICE AND SOCIAL SERVICE FUNDING. ALL GOING INTO THE POCKETS OF CRUMP AND CREW.

    DeeDee won’t see a cent … and may well see a perjury charge. Thanks to Crump and the other “gravy train” riders. She gave a fabricated statement to the prosecutor (who is still hiding her phone records) in her sworn interview and will certainly be deposed by OM. And, possibly, she will no longer be a minor when the trial date comes up. Remember, even Tawana was smart enough to never give her statements under oath.

    The statement “was not worth fully investigating” is a myth. It began (perpetrated) long before the actual scope of the actual investigation was even released! That tells you plenty. How can an unreleased (by law) police investigation be criticized before its scope was even know? Legitimately, couldn’t be.

  35. Susan said: “You realize that, from all available evidence and correspondence, it appears that Serino firmly believed that Zimmerman was a liar who wrongfully killed an innocent kid?”

    ***Actually? No. Serino’s FBI interview was actually conducted in early April and it specifically examines his March 12 report written made AFTER the case became the center of media attention. Clearly, by that time he was in CYA mode.

    Moreover, even the March 12 statement is innocuous and vague from a criminal liability point of view. Here is what Serino says about his report:

    “Agents asked SERINO about the above [March 12] statement and he replied that just the act of following him (MARTIN) was the instigation (of ZIMMERMAN) and nothing else. SERINO believed that ZIMMERMAN’s actions were not based on MARTIN’S skin color rather based on his attire, the
    total circumstances of the encounter and the previous burglary suspects in the community.

    Serino explained to agents that the local gangs, referred to in the community as “GOONS”, typically dressed in black and wore hoodies. Serino believes that when ZIMMERMAN saw MARTIN in a hoody,
    ZIMMERMAN took it upon himself to view MARTIN as acting suspicious. Serino described ZIMMERMAN as overzealous and as having a “little hero complex”, but not as a racist.

    Serino told agents that he has talked to ZIMMERMAN on numerous occasions and feels like he knows him fairly well. Serino thinks that ZIMMERMAN does not want to be a cop because cops have a bad reputation and are bullies, but he wants to be a judge. Serino described ZIMMERMAN as being a “soft guy.””

    That’s it? How can you charge someone with murder 2 based on the results and opinions stated above? You cannot, which explains why Zimmerman was not arrested until the media and Crump got involved.

    No wonder Serino was demoted and now faces a ruined career if he doesn’t “play ball” at trial and lie.

    Susan, what evidence (and not “media” reports and “leaks”) are you citing to, from Serino, that supports your claim that “Serino firmly believed that Zimmerman was a liar who wrongfully killed an innocent kid?”

    • It’s clear that Sgt. Barns was the most likely “leaker” to Crump. He was in a heated debate with Serino to have Serino change his decision and the “hero complex” statement was surely repeated by Serino as a key part of that debate. That term does not come out of “thin air.”

      Serino had finished his report on March 12 and the VERY NEXT DAY, Crump team member, Natalie Jackson is quoted in the Orlando Sentinel using the exact same term “hero complex”:

      “Racism is too simple. It may have been a factor,” said family attorney Natalie Jackson. But also to blame was Zimmerman’s “hero complex.” He should never have gotten out of his vehicle and confronted Trayvon, she said.”

      Where else, but from Barns — who was actively pressuring Serino to change his position, even though Barns had NOTHING TO DO WITH HOMICIDE — did Jackson not only get the term “hero complex” but also the very essence of what was going into Serino’s police report (which could not be released, by law). A bad smell is emanating here.

      • “I wonder if they ever tracked who produced the ABC video of the arrival of Zimmerman at the police station.”

        Do you mean the “enhanced” version where they kept the part we wanted to see covered with their logo and then showed a still that had two shadowy places that turned out be nowhere close to where his actual wounds were, and which, for all we know, were nothing more than artifacts of the re-digitizing?

        unitron

    • Even the FBI agent who wrote the report on the Serino interview needs grammar lessons (or worse?). At the key juncture, the FBI report states (referring to the March 12 Serino report):

      “Agents asked SERINO about the above statement and he replied that just the act of following him (MARTIN) was the instigation (of ZIMMERMAN) and nothing else.”

      What does the above MEAN??? “Instigation” of what? Why is Zimmerman’s name in the parentheses? That makes no sense.

      Did Serino really say that the “following” was the instigation of MARTIN’s brutal attack on Zimmerman (for “staring” and “following” him)? A scenario that makes perfect sense.

      Why is Zimmerman’s name placed in parentheses? Maybe the context of Serino’s statement was that Zimmerman, by simply following Martin (note the word “pursuing” is NOT used), triggered Martin’s reaction to attack Zimmerman.

      No wonder Serino was demoted! He destroys the prosecutor’s case. Imagine how he felt being not only pressured by Barns and two of his friends to change his opinion, but to also have the prosecutor trying to force him to repudiate his very own investigation … that concluded Zimmerman should NOT be arrested.

      In fact, his “revised” March 12 report, given its completely innocuous contents, was nothing more than a “raspberry” in the face of the prosecutor.

      I hope Serino has a good union representative and attorney.

  36. Well this is interesting. According to theGrio, O’Mara’s office confirmed they DID send the email to conservativetreehouse. From theGrio:

    “O’Mara’s law firm responded to theGrio’s request for comment by email, saying that ‘regarding The Conservative Treehouse, the email from Mr. O’Mara they published represents the only interaction we have had with them.'”.

    • HP,

      An individual sent an e-mail to Mark O’Mara, and he responded. That individual then posted the response in a comment. The blog then started a new thread based on the e-mail.

      Imagine that you sent an e-mail to Angela Corey, saying that she should really read LL2, and she responded to you, and you then posted her response in a comment thread. I would not characterize your posting of that e-mail, as “publication”.

      And then Susan decided to post the e-mail in a new thread. Susan (LL2) would indeed be publishing the e-mail.

      If Corey thought she were responding to “LL2” (ie by including a link to a discussion here, that you were somehow acting as a representative of LL2), she might then state that the e-mail Corey had sent to you was “interaction” with LL2.

    • Susan, I agree. To me it seems almost like a conflict of interest if O’Mara feels he has to say and do things to please this crowd when their agenda may not be in Zimmerman’s best interests.

    • Jim, it’s not quite like the comparison you gave above. O’Mara said, “Pls pass on, and I would like to c if we could set up a chat session so I could respond directly to q’s.. just need to maintain a level of security over the communications”.

      To who else would this person “pass on” this email, except the other people at ConservativeTreeHouse? And in what format except in a thread at that site?

      O’Mara says, “I truly appreciate all the great work done by everyone over there so far.”

      Sick. I checked one of their threads last night where they were like pirranhas in their frenzied rush to find ever bit of dirt they could possibly muster against the molest victim. They even bragged about their assumed role in having the family’s business website being removed from the internet.

    • HP,

      And if Angela Corey asked you to pass it on, she might do so somehow thinking that you were representing LL2 – particularly if you happened to use “we” to refer to yourself and Peter O, Ricky Jimenez, InspGadget, Unitron, and myself (and others).

      The person who posted the e-mail appears to be a casual poster, and apologized for not being savvy about blogs, and e-mail, Really no different than how you described yourself in that regard. He even indicated that he didn’t know how to pass the e-mail on directly.

      Even if Corey did not want to contact LL2 through yourself, she might write “I truly appreciate all the great work done by everyone over there so far.”

      After all, she spent 45 minutes on the phone with Harvard University trying to get Alan Dershowitz fired, so if she thought LL2 were helpful, she might add a compliment to others.

  37. This is the tape of the woman accusing Zimmerman of molesting her. She sounds pretty traumatized to me. He told her when she was six that they were just laying down, so that’s what she told her sister at the time. It sounds to me like Zimmerman completely manipulated her. In my opinion, Zimmerman also manipulated his wife. She would have paid the money for the bond out of the donations. Zimmerman told her, “Hell no”.

    http://countusin.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/george-zimmermans-cousin-full-testimony-about-sexual/

  38. ConservativeTreeHouse already has this woman’s picture up on their website. New smear campaign. How predictable. Ruin the traumatized young lady who was sexually abused since she was six. It’s not like they think she was lying. Zimmerman already apologized to her parents!

    Doesn’t matter to them though. How many innocent people will they have to smear to try to keep Zimmerman looking pretty?

    • [SMS summary of post: PeterO thinks it’s a good idea to post the personal information of sexual abuse victims, judge their personal appearance, and accuse them of trying to (somehow) “make money” off of having been sexually abused.]

    • Actually Peter, I’d like to express my appreciation to both you and Jim for NOT resorting to these tactics with this young woman, and I hope you will continue to refrain from doing so in the future.

      I apologize for not saying this last night. I thought about it after I went to bed and resolved to say this to you and Jim today.

    • “[SMS summary of post: PeterO thinks it’s a good idea to post the personal information of sexual abuse victims, judge their personal appearance, and accuse them of trying to (somehow) “make money” off of having been sexually abused.]”

      ***My original, now distorted post, was simply that the PURPORTED 27 year old “sexual abuse victim” is likely to be anything but. And she had been, unsuccessfully trying to sell her “story” to various media outlets … with NO success.

      This is a 27 YEAR OLD woman, NOT A CHILD, who “came out of the woodwork” with a preposterous excuse for never previously saying anything for over 10 years and who is also accusing Zimmerman of being a racist — a “flash” point that everyone knows will inspire racial riots when a “not guilty” decision is made.

      How many deaths and damage can later be attributed to her false, and unchallenged (by censorship) accusations of Zimmerman racism?

      She and her “supporters” — including commentors on this site who are repetitiously repeating duplicative posts in desperate attempts to smear Zimmerman with false accusations of “molester” — rely completely on her unrebutted (by censorship) “story.” All criticism of her motives and true history are simultaneously suppressed to “prove” Zimmerman guilty. Of what? Murder 2, child abuse, or both??

      I find it very interesting (and silly) the extensive coverage on the serious topic of child abuse is constantly being used as part of pseudo “scientific” “analyses” of Zimmerman’s psyche and motivations! So the smear is thereby completed, including with the long “pseudo scientific” “analyses” of molesters … thereby “proving,” by implication, that all those “scientists” have accepted that Zimmerman is one!

      This woman (not a child) herself interjected her background — and the right to expose it, including her motives — into any debate, by her publicly and repeatedly contacting different media outlets to sell her preposterous “story” of molestation and Zimmerman racism.

      To portray her as some sort of “innocent” abuse victim simply shows the desperation of Crump and his followers to get “anything” they can on Zimmerman because of the overwhelming evidence that he will be exonerated. Notice the “timing” of her purported story was when the new evidence was released that strongly favored Zimmerman. No coincidence there.

      It is most telling that the purported “accuser” never has (and is not!) either pressed charges, or even sued Zimmerman. Instead she (and Crump followers) simply use her preposterous allegations to smear him. All without accountability as to the source of the smears, which accountability is blocked by censorship.

      Even Twana and Crystal were subject to public scrutiny after they made their accusations. Tawana Braw ley was 15 years old (not 27 as this woman is) and her story and circumstances were extensively publicized.

    • OH, OK PeterO. Looks like I misunderstood you again. I therefore apologize for temporarily thinking more highly of you. Looks like you’re going along with the Zimmerzone line after all. Gosh darn.

  39. So MOM knew about the money. LOL! I wonder how much this new information has to do with MOM wanting a new judge?

  40. Hi Sandbagger. Nice to see you here!

    Yes, are you talking about the jail conversation between Zimmerman and his friend Scott about the $37,000? I think I recall Susan expressing some doubts in the very beginning about how much O’Mara knew about the money.

    Hey, good point about this possibly being connected to O’Mara wanting a new judge! The judge certainly took O’Mara at his word that he wasn’t aware of any money.

    I think The Miami Herald has a pretty good write-up about it. They say the following conversation took place between Zimmerman and his friend Scott:

    Either Zimmerman got some really bad advice from his lawyer (and from the conversation, O’Mara may not have known about the “volume” of money involved), or Zimmerman was simply lying to his friend Scott (in a possible attempt to manipulate Scott into helping him hide the cash?) – which wouldn’t surprise me either.

    FLASH: O’Mara disputes what Zimmerman said. O’Mara told the Miami Herald:

    So now we have a “he said – he said” thing happening between an attorney and his client. I think they better get their story straight, or Zimmerman might be looking for a new attorney.

    Geez, the sleeze – of it all.

  41. REWRITE (somehow the conversation between Zimmerman and Scott didn’t come through when posted):

    Hi Sandbagger. Nice to see you here!

    Yes, are you talking about the jail conversation between Zimmerman and his friend Scott about the $37,000? I think I recall Susan expressing some doubts in the very beginning about how much O’Mara knew about the money.

    Hey, good point about this possibly being connected to O’Mara wanting a new judge! The judge certainly took O’Mara at his word that he wasn’t aware of any money.

    I think The Miami Herald has a pretty good write-up about it. They say the following conversation took place between Zimmerman and his friend Scott:

    “He said he’s going to have me declared indigent,” Zimmerman told his friend. “I told him I didn’t think that would be possible, because there was one sizable transfer I tried to make. It got stopped. You know, $37. He said: ‘Well that doesn’t matter. Right now you’re not working. You’re not providing an income for your family. You’re probably not going to be employable for the rest of your life.’”

    At one point the friend asks whether O’Mara knew “the volume” of the donations that came into the PayPal account Zimmerman had set up to solicit donations from the public. Zimmerman said O’Mara knew about the attempted transfer of $37,000, but not any more than that.

    They agreed to keep it that way.

    —————————————————————————————–

    Either Zimmerman got some really bad advice from his lawyer (and from the conversation, O’Mara may not have known about the “volume” of money involved), or Zimmerman was simply lying to his friend Scott (in a possible attempt to manipulate Scott into helping him hide the cash?) – which wouldn’t surprise me either.

    FLASH: O’Mara disputes what Zimmerman said. O’Mara told the Miami Herald:

    “I recall now some conversation of a transfer, but I don’t recall a specific amount,” O’Mara told The Miami Herald. “If it was $10,000 or $100,000 or $30,000, I would have remembered. It’s not the type of thing you would risk your license to practice law over.”

    ———————————————————————————

    So now we have a “he said – he said” thing happening between an attorney and his client. I think they better get their story straight, or Zimmerman might be looking for a new attorney.

    Geez, the sleeze – of it all.

    • Geez, the desperation — of your silly irrelevant posts.

      You sounded better with your bizarre DeeDee like chase sequences … around buildings and streets no less! And with your “missing key” nonsense.

      • PeterO
        i am going to tell you this once, do not attack or post to Hapufern the way you do. I am sick and tired of you picking on her every post. She posts of what her insights are to this case as you do. You do not need to belittle or name call or anything else to her or to other posters here. You have chased off many people from this blog that belongs to Susan Simspon not you PeterO. So take a deep breath and have some respect for her and others.
        Thanks You
        Loree

    • I will tell you, I have seriously thought about copying and pasting both Susan’s and talkleft into a blog and moderating the hell out of it to keep out the riff raft. It is sad that when online these people act any way they want. I doubt that they do it in public. This is why I typically sit on the side and don’t contribute, thus the name Sandbagger, it’s an old ham radio term meaning that you are there, but just listening to the conversation.

      Well I think that Z, his attorneys and Lester are starting to have some strange problems. Even MOM has stated that this case has many odd aspects to it. It is starting to look like he is playing a game of, lets make a circus out of this so Z can get an appeal in the hopes that in 2-3 years nobody will care and he will have worn out the prosecution. IMHO this is a very good idea for a defense attorney in MOM position. He is playing the long game and looking 2-3 years down the road. In this view I think Z’s chances are much better.

      I remember when they got Judge Lester, all the Z supporters were so happy saying that he was the best Judge Z could get, and know they hate him (I think what Z supporters really hate is the law and America) If they think that a new Judge will help them they are insane. Any Judge taking this case is going to know how Lester was treated and possibly be even harder on the defense for trying to play spin the wheel for a favorable judge in a case that is national news. No Judge wants part of that. What the defense seems to be looking for is not a fair Judge, but rather a dishonest Judge. If you are truly innocent and you can prove it so easily like the Z supports claim, who cares about the Judge, he has to follow the jury’s decision. But MOM knows (unlike his silly Z supporters) that a jury will convict and that Z’s only chance is SYG, (or the long game) he also knows that a Jury will not buy a SYG case, so his only chance is to find a Judge that is in favor of ending this case before it goes to trial. To me and the rest of the legal community this looks like a hail mary sort of desperation on all levels.

      I said it before and I will say it again. The defense has already made it’s argument the moment Z opened his mouth to the police. They can’t change their story now and are stuck with that version. MOM knows that the Prosecution can easily tear this story apart and PROVE that there is no way his story is true. That is all they have to do and it doesn’t take a great legal mind to see how easy this is.

      I am only stating my opinion and things can change, but as things stand now, and by the way MOM is acting, I don’t feel that I am too far off track.

      Cheers

  42. I’m not anywhere near the level in this thread, or on this blog. All of your knowledge blows me off of the map, but someone asked a question that made me laugh. Someone asked why Martin didn’t head straight home.
    Coming from a teenager that wasn’t too happy with her home life, I too would never just head straight home. I’d use an excuse like “going to the store” or “going for a run” to get out of my house. I’d even walk to a payphone to call my boyfriend, even though I had a phone to use in the house. Martin was on the phone with a female friend and preferred to be outside while on the phone and took his time. If he was scared of Zimmerman and he had by followed by him, an assuming teenager would think he lost his stalker. “Maybe he wasn’t following me in the first place”, is maybe what Martin thought. Most young people don’t think of impending danger and he thought he had avoided it or made it up, and was also lulled into a false sense of security because he was in the vicinity of “home.” He then felt safe again and took his time while on the phone. I would have done the same as a kid.

    • And all your assumptions fit nicely into a nice image of martin that the media portrays. If someone was stalking you at night in a residential area (with no one else around) then you would not just shrug your shoulders and forget about it. He could of gone other ways but instead he decided to go back the SAME way the stalker came from. He could of left another way and remained outside but away from Zimmerman.

      Likewise you forget to mention that in “taking his time” martin went up to the clubhouse and was looking through the windows. If you or I went up to a house at night in a gated community and started looking through a neighbors window then guess what…people would be suspicious. As a kid would you of attacked someone and smashed their head repeatedly against a kerb.

      “Maybe he wasn’t following…”. The woman Martin spoke to on the phone said “He said the man kept watching him. He kept complaining that a man was just watching him.” So he knew Zimmerman was focusing on him. At this stage it is still a miscommunication between the two. Zimmerman has his suspicions, Martin has his suspicions.

      Likewise you base this all on Zimmerman being the one that attacked Martin when there is 0 evidence that Zimmerman started the confrontation. Likewise why would Zimmerman (an overweight man below average height at 5 foot 8) want to start a fist fight with a young 5 foot 11 black man who he himself believed might be armed. As Zimmerman said with the operator “He’s got his hand in his waist band”. So why would a person in not best physical state start a fist fight with someone who they think might be armed? You believe that on that night Zimmerman was out to kill a black youth and purposefully put himself on a losing side of a fight so he could kill Martin?

  43. GZ claims that TM had his hands over his mouth and nose and told him to “shut the fuck up”. That’s a lie and GZ knows it. The lie is put to that claim by the fact that the palm of TM’s hands did not have ANY of GZ’s blood from his nose in it. Clearly, if TM had his hands over GZ’s mouth and nose then the palm of TM’s hands would be covered in the blood from GZ’s nose that he claimed he sustained at the time he shot TM. That’s commonsense and don’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

    • Not necessarily. Zimmerman’s nose bleed could be from the recoil of his gun — it does seem kind of like the blood is originating from a couple scrapes on top of his nose, rather than internally. In which case, the blood wouldn’t have been there during the altercation (and would explain why there wasn’t any blood spread about during the altercation).

    • No, no no! Someone removed those extra hands TM used to cover GZ’s nose and mouth with, before the Police arrived and carried them away. O’Mara can’t find them because they always get away.

    • Considering the fight happened for an extended period you cannot claim that during the scuffle that there was never a point where Martins hands did not go over Zimmermans mouth

  44. Pingback: Zimmerman Judge Schedules Next Hearing on Trayvon's 18th Birthday - Page 48 (politics)

  45. Pingback: Trayvon Martin Memorial Planned for Goldsboro Museum - Page 29 (politics)

  46. @ Ricky Jiminez ” Where is your evidence that Zimmerman could run to first base without collapsing?”

    Have you seen the evidence relating to George’s membership at a highly rated mma training facility, and how he’d lost near 50lbs during his 16 monthly $100+ lessons? Check it out – it might cause you to revise your opinions on how likely it was he got manhandled(allegedly) by a 30lb lighter, pot-smoking teen.

  47. Pingback: The Defense’s Opening Statement Fails to Address George Zimmerman’s Contradicting Claims of How the Altercation with Trayvon Martin Started | The View From LL2

  48. If the police had had a chance to review the 911 call in which there is screaming non-stop for 40 secs, in conjunction with this written statement, they had enough probable cause to hold him 4 additional questioning to ascertain the facts. Instead he got to go home & powwow with his witness neighbors prior to the enactment scheduled for the following evening.

    (Probable cause-reasonable belief a crime was committed and suspect did it.)

  49. Wait? So someone circling your car 4m away (aka a car length) at night with no one else around is not threatening?!?!

    I cannot explain how people spew out the most illogical and naive things. If someone decided to circle my car at night then i’m going to be suspicious and shock and horror – so would you!.

    Stupid white kids with white guilt and black race mongers trying to force mob justice on an innocent man. The average person has probably only read a few biased articles on this while liberal internet warriors go from site to site manipulating the transcript, the descriptions, using selective language like ‘child’ martin and ‘murderer’ zimmerman, ‘stalker’ (even though the guys fat and by the time he even got out of his car he had lost sight of him) etc.

    Skittles and iced tea? They are ingredients to make a drink called ‘lean’ to get high. Doesn’t change anything about the criminal case as these are irrelevant but using it as a symbol of his youth is innocence when it is being used to make a drug concoction is character manipulation to the highest degree.

    Trayvon martin was a small smiling 12 year old? Nope he was a 17 year old and 5 foot 11. Thats a

    Martin did nothing suspicious? At night with a bag and his head mostly covered with a hood in his hand he went up to the house of a property and was looking through the window. If someone went up to your neighbors house and was peering through the windows what would you think? Oh yeah, I forgot, most ‘good’ people would open their doors and invite them in because going onto other peoples property and looking through their windows is what civilized people tend to do. No crime worse than trespassing but it’s quite right Zimmerman would have suspicions especially considering the consistent number of BREAK INS that had been happening in the community.

    Trayvon Martin was a masters scholarship student. Irrelevant to the case but another lie that gets propagated. He had been suspended multiple times from school and was the reason why he was staying with his father at the time. Likewise due to affirmative action it is much more easier for blacks to get ‘scholarships’ than whites and isn’t . People in their liberal ivory tower forget that affirmative action scholarships is giving out money due to race and not academic achievement so it is absolutely baseless.

    Why don’t the newspapers show Trayvon Martin’s tweets? Irrelevant to the case but they don’t like to pick up on his account named ‘No Limit Nigga’ nor his facebook communications where he talked about lean, getting a gun and all together wanting to behave like a thug. If you act like a thug guess what? People will think your a thug. I’ve been around enough white liberal kids to know they will say on the internet that they don’t judge anyone, happy and open to everyone blah blah but out in the real world they are very judegemental and are worse at judging than me! (and lets not forget them saying racist jokes but saying they only laugh because they shouldn’t say it rather than them believing them…). If they say it enough time on facebook or some internet comment board then they think they are not what they are.

    Zimmerman hunted down martin? Martin circled his car then ran away. The operator was constantly asking him of martin’s location. The operator asked “He’s running? What way is he running?”. After a back and forth describing the location the operator asked “Are you following him?”. Zimmerman said “yeah”. Operator: “Ok, we don’t need you to do that”. Zimmerman stopped. Paused at the ‘T’ then went back to his car. Unlike the shocking things people promote that Zimmerman ‘hunted’ down Martin in fact Zimmerman went back to his car and Martin double backed. At this point there is still no crime committed and is just a mis communication between the two. Zimmerman suspects Martin is a burglar, Martin supposedly suspects Zimmerman is a gay stalker (though who would want to partly circle the car of a gay stalker). Martin could of gone home, phoned the cops, said there was a stalker while the cops would of met with zimmerman. The police would of put two and two and understand that there was a mis communication and life will go on. Instead Martin decided to start a fight with a person who he described as a ‘gay ass cracka’, just like to Zimmerman called Martin a ‘punk’ (though of course Zimmerman is the racist one…)

    Zimmerman head wounds ‘minor injuries’. Yep, just like being punched in the face can technically be a ‘minor injury’. It can also lead to permanent brain damage. Lets say that to get those wounds Zimmerman head the ground 4 times. Those 4 times were ‘minor’ but if he got hit the 5th time there is nothing to say that the 5th time could of led to much worse injuries and brain damage. Martin was trying to inflict grievous harm on Zimmerman there is no 2 ways about it. When a neighbor shouted that he was phoning the cops did martin stop? Nope he carried on.

    I’m not even from the US, im from the UK, but it is deeply disturbing what I have seen here with people in the UK supporting the anti-zimmerman line and trying to get mob justice on an innocent man. However ‘civilized’ we believe our world is today the altercation between martin and zimmerman was more caveman than 21st century society and what happened was sadly caveman. Man decides to be violent with other man, man defends himself. No nice affirmative action or committee meetings going on here. The world can be rough; dog eat dog and the attacker picked a fight he thought he could win but he lost.

    The media is trash, politicians are trash. The liberal posters on here are just their tools and only seek to repress the truth so they can attempt to validate themselves in the hope that if you are deciples of the NAACP and Al Sharpton then all race problems will disappear and blacks will stop committing crimes (even though the majority of crime committed by blacks is black-on-black).

    ‘Liberal’ (though nothing to do with real libertarianism) keyboard warriors only work to wear down those who speak out. Those who take up this crusade are ‘educated’ and use argumentative tricks galore. Attack the poster (ad-hominen), pull then race card or just ignore the evidence or say that anything that disputes what you say is ‘speculative’ or ‘I don’t know about that’ (just like politicians say “I do not recall” when they are in the shit).

    Stay true to yourself and speak with your vote. The media and others use language to manipulate arguments. “Zimmerman decided to kill Martin”? Right, his decision was some kind of pre meditated decision which he had planned? Yep, because Martin really gave Zimmerman much of a choice. Zimmerman had two options
    a) Allow a life threatening attack to continue with no immediate help from others
    b) Use the means at his disposal to protect him from grievous bodily harm

    Silly naive people on the internet will likely never experience such violence and if they did they sure as well would defend themselves as who has the right to physically assault and cause potential life delibating injuries which that person must live with for the rest of their lives. How would you feel if your father, brother, son, grandfather, best friend etc had life threatening injuries caused by someone who wanted to beat them up.

    The same people that belittle Zimmermans being a victim of violence and saying it was ‘minor’ would most certainly not take that line if it was sexual violence. Of course martin was not trying to rape zimmerman but you cannot say ‘Zimmerman should of taken a beating and not shot him’ when you most certainly would not say ‘The woman should of let rape her and not shot him’.

    Zimmerman has a partner, a mother, a father etc. How would they feel if their son was left in a vegetative state by an attacker who (if arrested) would spend a few years in prison then be let out.

    And I leave you with the case of Roderic Scott:
    http://emsnews.wordpress.com/2013/07/16/the-roderick-scott-not-guilty-vigilante-case-when-he-murdered-a-17-year-old-white-boy/
    In a state with less strong self defense laws (in the case of a property crime the person should retreat but not use deadly force). He protected his neighbors property (though arguably was looking for a confrontation aka arming himself with a gun and leaving the house) He was found innocent and I say good as well. Law abiding citizens should have the right to protect themselves from criminals and those that want to bring harm.

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