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	<title>Comments for The View From LL2</title>
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	<description>Thoughts on law, economics, and all things slightly geeky.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 07:01:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Death by onlyiamunitron</title>
		<link>http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/#comment-2759</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[onlyiamunitron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 07:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viewfromll2.com/?p=3108#comment-2759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s unitron, short for university electronics

1211 Twin Trees Lane is the best address for both the Honda and where Martin was last seen.

The dispatcher, having already noted that Zimmerman didn&#039;t even get the clubhouse address right, wants to know if Zimmerman wants to meet with the police when they get &quot;out there&quot; (which I take to mean &quot;arrive at The Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood&quot;, not when they&#039;re close enought to run over his toes), and, getting an affirmative answer, is trying to find out where he wants to meet up with them.

He&#039;s not trying to get directions, which is fortunate because Zimmerman is terrible at giving them, he&#039;s trying to get a location, an address he can give the cops, and they can work out how to get there on their own or with the help of some sort of in-car display.  If you ask &quot;where&#039;s the White House?&quot;, then &quot;1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC&quot; is a better answer than &quot;Well, you go up Interstate &#039;foo&#039; until you get to highway &#039;bar&#039;...&quot;.

The dispatcher doesn&#039;t ask &quot;how do you get to...?&quot;, he asks &quot;where?&quot;.

So he asks for the address in front of which Zimmerman is parked.

Zimmerman can&#039;t, or doesn&#039;t, even come up with the name of the street on which he is parked.

I&#039;d start wondering if this guy was a local as well.

When Zimmerman confirmed that he did live in that neighborhood, the dispatcher probably asked for his address so that the cops could meet him there.

When he couldn&#039;t get that, he probably figured that maybe Zimmerman could find his way back to the mailboxes and the cops could meet him there.

Go listen to the recording of the call and ask yourself which of these guys had the higher SAT score.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s unitron, short for university electronics</p>
<p>1211 Twin Trees Lane is the best address for both the Honda and where Martin was last seen.</p>
<p>The dispatcher, having already noted that Zimmerman didn&#8217;t even get the clubhouse address right, wants to know if Zimmerman wants to meet with the police when they get &#8220;out there&#8221; (which I take to mean &#8220;arrive at The Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood&#8221;, not when they&#8217;re close enought to run over his toes), and, getting an affirmative answer, is trying to find out where he wants to meet up with them.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s not trying to get directions, which is fortunate because Zimmerman is terrible at giving them, he&#8217;s trying to get a location, an address he can give the cops, and they can work out how to get there on their own or with the help of some sort of in-car display.  If you ask &#8220;where&#8217;s the White House?&#8221;, then &#8220;1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC&#8221; is a better answer than &#8220;Well, you go up Interstate &#8216;foo&#8217; until you get to highway &#8216;bar&#8217;&#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>The dispatcher doesn&#8217;t ask &#8220;how do you get to&#8230;?&#8221;, he asks &#8220;where?&#8221;.</p>
<p>So he asks for the address in front of which Zimmerman is parked.</p>
<p>Zimmerman can&#8217;t, or doesn&#8217;t, even come up with the name of the street on which he is parked.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d start wondering if this guy was a local as well.</p>
<p>When Zimmerman confirmed that he did live in that neighborhood, the dispatcher probably asked for his address so that the cops could meet him there.</p>
<p>When he couldn&#8217;t get that, he probably figured that maybe Zimmerman could find his way back to the mailboxes and the cops could meet him there.</p>
<p>Go listen to the recording of the call and ask yourself which of these guys had the higher SAT score.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Death by onlyiamunitron</title>
		<link>http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/#comment-2758</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[onlyiamunitron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 06:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viewfromll2.com/?p=3108#comment-2758</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;unitron, Nice editing!&quot;

I just copypasta&#039;ed from Wikipedia, so blame them for the punctuation.

I just went back and listened to the recording.

He says &quot;It&#039;s a home it&#039;s 1950&quot;, then he bangs on his flashlight some more or somehing, then he says &quot;oh crap I don&#039;t want to give it all out I don&#039;t know where this kid is.&quot; with almost no pause whatever between &quot;all out&quot; and &quot;I don&#039;t know&quot;, indicating to me that not knowing where Martin is is the reason he doesn&#039;t want to be overheard revealing his address.

Of course as I&#039;ve indicated elsewhere  Zimmerman&#039;s so addle-brained it&#039;s possible he&#039;d jump topics abruptly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;unitron, Nice editing!&#8221;</p>
<p>I just copypasta&#8217;ed from Wikipedia, so blame them for the punctuation.</p>
<p>I just went back and listened to the recording.</p>
<p>He says &#8220;It&#8217;s a home it&#8217;s 1950&#8243;, then he bangs on his flashlight some more or somehing, then he says &#8220;oh crap I don&#8217;t want to give it all out I don&#8217;t know where this kid is.&#8221; with almost no pause whatever between &#8220;all out&#8221; and &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221;, indicating to me that not knowing where Martin is is the reason he doesn&#8217;t want to be overheard revealing his address.</p>
<p>Of course as I&#8217;ve indicated elsewhere  Zimmerman&#8217;s so addle-brained it&#8217;s possible he&#8217;d jump topics abruptly.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Death by WayneM</title>
		<link>http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/#comment-2757</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WayneM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 06:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viewfromll2.com/?p=3108#comment-2757</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have wondered if George&#039;s phone or even Martin&#039;s might have recorded the event but by now someone would have leaked that info. 
Maybe someone will show up who saw or even heard it all when it started. Has the state released its best evidence or is there more to come?

They sure as hell need more than we have seen so far. Otherwise I doubt that there will even be a trial .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have wondered if George&#8217;s phone or even Martin&#8217;s might have recorded the event but by now someone would have leaked that info.<br />
Maybe someone will show up who saw or even heard it all when it started. Has the state released its best evidence or is there more to come?</p>
<p>They sure as hell need more than we have seen so far. Otherwise I doubt that there will even be a trial .</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Death by jimrtex</title>
		<link>http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/#comment-2756</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jimrtex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 05:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viewfromll2.com/?p=3108#comment-2756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The EMT said Martin appeared 20.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The EMT said Martin appeared 20.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Death by jimrtex</title>
		<link>http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/#comment-2755</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jimrtex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 05:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viewfromll2.com/?p=3108#comment-2755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unit Ron,

Which residence was Zimmernan&#039;s truck parked in front of?

And Zimmerman was giving further instructions when the dispatcher interrupted him. .You&#039;re assuming that Zimmerman heard or comprehended fully the question that he was asked while he was talking.

Why didn&#039;t the dispatcher ask for the street?

And after Zimmerman told that he lived in the area, why didn&#039;t he ask for the street?   Why did he need to know Zimmerman&#039;s address?

And when Zimmerman called, he said &quot;there have been some break-ins in my neighborhood, the best address I can give you ....&quot;   Why had the dispatcher forgot?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unit Ron,</p>
<p>Which residence was Zimmernan&#8217;s truck parked in front of?</p>
<p>And Zimmerman was giving further instructions when the dispatcher interrupted him. .You&#8217;re assuming that Zimmerman heard or comprehended fully the question that he was asked while he was talking.</p>
<p>Why didn&#8217;t the dispatcher ask for the street?</p>
<p>And after Zimmerman told that he lived in the area, why didn&#8217;t he ask for the street?   Why did he need to know Zimmerman&#8217;s address?</p>
<p>And when Zimmerman called, he said &#8220;there have been some break-ins in my neighborhood, the best address I can give you &#8230;.&#8221;   Why had the dispatcher forgot?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Death by PeterO</title>
		<link>http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/#comment-2754</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PeterO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 05:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viewfromll2.com/?p=3108#comment-2754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[unitron,

Nice editing! Your transcription of what Zimmerman says was:

7:13:10: Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950,[Note 3, 3rd picture] oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is…”

Listening to the tape the real transcription is (note the correct placement of the period, not the comma you used):

&quot;7:13:10: Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950,[Note 3, 3rd picture] oh crap I don’t want to give it all out. I don’t know where this kid is…”

The second sentence was simply a separate comment Zimmerman made. Of course, the dispatcher, when asked, should give an interesting answer as to why, if Zimmerman was afraid the suspect who already disappeared was hiding only a few feet away, he did not pick up on that extreme risk to Zimmerman and warn Zimmerman again. The reason is obvious, it makes no sense for Zimmerman to not give out an address based on fear the suspect can overhear him in the rain when he could simply have solved that problem by talking in a low voice, moving a few feet toward any light or covering the mouthpiece with his hand. 

The dispatcher clearly came to the conclusion that Zimmerman simply did not want to release his address (a common enough occurrence), which obviously was not a required piece of information, so he saw no need to follow up. And he was also was provided with up to the minute information that the suspect was still out of sight.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>unitron,</p>
<p>Nice editing! Your transcription of what Zimmerman says was:</p>
<p>7:13:10: Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950,[Note 3, 3rd picture] oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is…”</p>
<p>Listening to the tape the real transcription is (note the correct placement of the period, not the comma you used):</p>
<p>&#8220;7:13:10: Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950,[Note 3, 3rd picture] oh crap I don’t want to give it all out. I don’t know where this kid is…”</p>
<p>The second sentence was simply a separate comment Zimmerman made. Of course, the dispatcher, when asked, should give an interesting answer as to why, if Zimmerman was afraid the suspect who already disappeared was hiding only a few feet away, he did not pick up on that extreme risk to Zimmerman and warn Zimmerman again. The reason is obvious, it makes no sense for Zimmerman to not give out an address based on fear the suspect can overhear him in the rain when he could simply have solved that problem by talking in a low voice, moving a few feet toward any light or covering the mouthpiece with his hand. </p>
<p>The dispatcher clearly came to the conclusion that Zimmerman simply did not want to release his address (a common enough occurrence), which obviously was not a required piece of information, so he saw no need to follow up. And he was also was provided with up to the minute information that the suspect was still out of sight.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Death by jimrtex</title>
		<link>http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/#comment-2753</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jimrtex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 05:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viewfromll2.com/?p=3108#comment-2753</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;all indications from the cops suggest that in Zimmerman’s initial statements, he made no mention of Trayvon trying to wrestle away his weapon&quot;

Which police officers have made any such &quot;indications&quot;?

I thought you were a lawyer?

&quot;The &#039;he was stealing my gun&#039; account didn’t come out until he supposedly told it to his dad and brother.&quot;

Why would it have &quot;come out&quot; before then?  Maybe the Sanford Police Department and the State Attorney in Sanford can keep statements made by a potential suspect confidential.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;all indications from the cops suggest that in Zimmerman’s initial statements, he made no mention of Trayvon trying to wrestle away his weapon&#8221;</p>
<p>Which police officers have made any such &#8220;indications&#8221;?</p>
<p>I thought you were a lawyer?</p>
<p>&#8220;The &#8216;he was stealing my gun&#8217; account didn’t come out until he supposedly told it to his dad and brother.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why would it have &#8220;come out&#8221; before then?  Maybe the Sanford Police Department and the State Attorney in Sanford can keep statements made by a potential suspect confidential.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Death by jimrtex</title>
		<link>http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/#comment-2752</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jimrtex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 04:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viewfromll2.com/?p=3108#comment-2752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Listen from about 7:30

The man&#039;s still watching from his car.
He&#039;s going to run from the back.
Run to his dad&#039;s place.
Next thing I know I can hear the wind blowing
He said he lost him.
He scared (change in voice) &lt;=== This is out of place.
He&#039;s right by his da&#039;s place.
BDLR: He say&#039;s he&#039;s right by his ass, meaning he&#039;s behind him.

&quot;DeeDee&quot;: NO -- She&#039;s adamant that Martin started walking after he lost the man.

She says:

He lost him.
He ran from the back.
He lost him

He only lost him once.  But she forgot the context, and had to insert that in and then have Martin lose him.

Finally BDLR understands that Martin had started walking after he had lost him by running (long enough to be tired).  He wasn&#039;t scared at all, at least at this point.

She told him to keep running.
But Martin told her he was **right by** his father&#039;s house.
Then in a couple of minutes the man was following him again.

Did Martin tell &quot;DeeDee&quot; that he didn&#039;t have a key?  Did he tell &quot;DeeDee&quot; that he was afraid that the white man who he had last seen sitting in his truck talking on the phone was going to do something to &quot;his little brother&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listen from about 7:30</p>
<p>The man&#8217;s still watching from his car.<br />
He&#8217;s going to run from the back.<br />
Run to his dad&#8217;s place.<br />
Next thing I know I can hear the wind blowing<br />
He said he lost him.<br />
He scared (change in voice) &lt;=== This is out of place.<br />
He&#039;s right by his da&#039;s place.<br />
BDLR: He say&#039;s he&#039;s right by his ass, meaning he&#039;s behind him.</p>
<p>&quot;DeeDee&quot;: NO &#8212; She&#039;s adamant that Martin started walking after he lost the man.</p>
<p>She says:</p>
<p>He lost him.<br />
He ran from the back.<br />
He lost him</p>
<p>He only lost him once.  But she forgot the context, and had to insert that in and then have Martin lose him.</p>
<p>Finally BDLR understands that Martin had started walking after he had lost him by running (long enough to be tired).  He wasn&#039;t scared at all, at least at this point.</p>
<p>She told him to keep running.<br />
But Martin told her he was **right by** his father&#039;s house.<br />
Then in a couple of minutes the man was following him again.</p>
<p>Did Martin tell &quot;DeeDee&quot; that he didn&#039;t have a key?  Did he tell &quot;DeeDee&quot; that he was afraid that the white man who he had last seen sitting in his truck talking on the phone was going to do something to &quot;his little brother&quot;?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Death by onlyiamunitron</title>
		<link>http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/#comment-2751</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[onlyiamunitron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 04:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viewfromll2.com/?p=3108#comment-2751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Has anyone here actually changed positions on this case? &quot;

My position remains that we do not yet know who first laid hands on whom.

I&#039;m trying to make sense of the rest in order to figure the probablilities on that all-crucial question.

It&#039;s a shame the people who followed Martin and Zimmerman around these past few years reading their every thought and observing their every action didn&#039;t think to have a video camera with them that night.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Has anyone here actually changed positions on this case? &#8221;</p>
<p>My position remains that we do not yet know who first laid hands on whom.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to make sense of the rest in order to figure the probablilities on that all-crucial question.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame the people who followed Martin and Zimmerman around these past few years reading their every thought and observing their every action didn&#8217;t think to have a video camera with them that night.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Death by onlyiamunitron</title>
		<link>http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/#comment-2750</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[onlyiamunitron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 04:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viewfromll2.com/?p=3108#comment-2750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;What had happened was Zimmerman, in two consecutive sentences, relayed to the dispatcher that he did not see the suspect and, separately, did not want to give out his address...&quot;


&quot;7:12:44: Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
7:12:53: Zimmerman: I don&#039;t know, it&#039;s a cut through so I don&#039;t know the address.[Note 3, 6th &amp; 7th pictures]
7:12:58: Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?
7:13:03: Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]
7:13:04: Dispatcher: What&#039;s your apartment number?
7:13:10: Zimmerman: It&#039;s a home it&#039;s 1950,[Note 3, 3rd picture] oh crap I don&#039;t want to give it all out, I don&#039;t know where this kid is...&quot;

They aren&#039;t talking about where Martin is, they&#039;re talking about where the Honda is, and Zimmerman&#039;s lack of direction giving skill that prompted the dispatcher to ask for the vehicle location in the first place makes it seem like he doesn&#039;t even live in the neighborhood.

I suppose, given the addled way Zimmerman&#039;s brain appears to work, that he decided not to give out all of his info and then totally jumped topics, but that&#039;s not how it sounds to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What had happened was Zimmerman, in two consecutive sentences, relayed to the dispatcher that he did not see the suspect and, separately, did not want to give out his address&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;7:12:44: Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?<br />
7:12:53: Zimmerman: I don&#8217;t know, it&#8217;s a cut through so I don&#8217;t know the address.[Note 3, 6th &amp; 7th pictures]<br />
7:12:58: Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?<br />
7:13:03: Zimmerman: Yeah, I&#8230;[unintelligible]<br />
7:13:04: Dispatcher: What&#8217;s your apartment number?<br />
7:13:10: Zimmerman: It&#8217;s a home it&#8217;s 1950,[Note 3, 3rd picture] oh crap I don&#8217;t want to give it all out, I don&#8217;t know where this kid is&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>They aren&#8217;t talking about where Martin is, they&#8217;re talking about where the Honda is, and Zimmerman&#8217;s lack of direction giving skill that prompted the dispatcher to ask for the vehicle location in the first place makes it seem like he doesn&#8217;t even live in the neighborhood.</p>
<p>I suppose, given the addled way Zimmerman&#8217;s brain appears to work, that he decided not to give out all of his info and then totally jumped topics, but that&#8217;s not how it sounds to me.</p>
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