Comments on: The Economic Agendas of Sci-Fi and Fantasy Authors, Vol. 2 — Terry Goodkind http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/ A blog about law, economics, politics, and more. Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:47:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Elizabeth B http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/#comment-704 Elizabeth B Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:49:41 +0000 http://viewfromll2.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-704 I am very, very late to this party, but this is hilarious even almost a year later. Well played! I am very, very late to this party, but this is hilarious even almost a year later. Well played!

]]> By: Susan Simpson http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/#comment-586 Susan Simpson Wed, 30 Jun 2010 02:28:10 +0000 http://viewfromll2.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-586 Yeah, no, I'm a libertarian, too. It's not the ideology I disagreed with -- it's the books. Although "disagreed" with is not the right term. It's not that I thought they were 'wrong,' it's just that they are ridiculous, in quite a few places. Also, they are so completely a fantasy series. There are a lot of absurd things about the Sword of Truth, but the fact Goodkind doesn't think they're a fantasy series is the most absurd of all. It's not that I didn't enjoy them. I wouldn't have read 9,000 pages of something I couldn't stand. But damn, if I wanted to satirize SoT, I could probably go on for a thousand and one blog posts. There's just so much ridiculousness there to choose from. Ignoring the possible critiques from the perspective of a fantasy fan, there is plenty to critique from a libertarian angle as well. Goodkind also doesn't actually present the ideology of "libertarianism" in his books, at least as the term is understood by most the world. Objectivist, maybe, libertarian, no. And Jagang is a caricature of evilness, not an accurate representation of the sorts of antagonists that libertarians might face in the real world. Not to mention, what kind of libertarian ubermensch has his subjects kneel down and pray to him five times a day -- and if they fail to pray to Richard on schedule, they lose their minds? Creepy. Also, "his" bias? I'm a chick. How closely did you read this post, anyway? Yeah, no, I’m a libertarian, too. It’s not the ideology I disagreed with — it’s the books.

Although “disagreed” with is not the right term. It’s not that I thought they were ‘wrong,’ it’s just that they are ridiculous, in quite a few places. Also, they are so completely a fantasy series. There are a lot of absurd things about the Sword of Truth, but the fact Goodkind doesn’t think they’re a fantasy series is the most absurd of all.

It’s not that I didn’t enjoy them. I wouldn’t have read 9,000 pages of something I couldn’t stand. But damn, if I wanted to satirize SoT, I could probably go on for a thousand and one blog posts. There’s just so much ridiculousness there to choose from.

Ignoring the possible critiques from the perspective of a fantasy fan, there is plenty to critique from a libertarian angle as well. Goodkind also doesn’t actually present the ideology of “libertarianism” in his books, at least as the term is understood by most the world. Objectivist, maybe, libertarian, no. And Jagang is a caricature of evilness, not an accurate representation of the sorts of antagonists that libertarians might face in the real world. Not to mention, what kind of libertarian ubermensch has his subjects kneel down and pray to him five times a day — and if they fail to pray to Richard on schedule, they lose their minds? Creepy.

Also, “his” bias? I’m a chick. How closely did you read this post, anyway?

]]> By: Eric http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/#comment-585 Eric Wed, 30 Jun 2010 01:08:17 +0000 http://viewfromll2.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-585 It seems that if one favors the libertarian theme, they like the books. If they both notice and dislike the libertarian themes then they find reasons to not like it. Of course there will always be those that don't like something because it just does not fit them. But that is not the case here. I am a libertarian. I always have been, even before I knew there was such a party or labeled ideology. I took a long hard honest look at the world and the people in it and came to understand things the way I do now. In fact I was quite surprised to find like minded persons out there more than a decade ago. As you might imagine I liked the series. Because I understood the themes I was able to understand the characters and identify. This, I'm sure, adds greatly to one's potential enjoyment of the books. If you do not understand, or deny the truths (the premises) behind the themes I doubt you would like the story or the characters. At this point it would be easy for anyone to pick apart any series, as every work of art (writing, painting, etc) especially one as extensive as some 8-9 thousand pages can always be put in a bad light and dissected for apparent flaws; most of which look like such only in isolation. I see a lot of this here. Whether it is a great series or a poor one for its ideology is in large part relative. You do not have to be a libertarian to like it, but it helps. Even someone who opposes libertarian thinking may like the story if they can avoid critiquing the themes as they read, and instead see the world created through the character's eyes without prejudgment. Thus, it is my humble opinion that the critic here should recuse himself from deciding the merit of these books because of his bias. As a side note, I took breaks from BarBri and read Sanderson's Mistborn novels (waiting for more Jordan as well, which helps since he's now writing them). They were very good. No objectionable ideologies detected. In fact the only writer I could not read was Turtledove. I read one book and chalked up the rampant sexism to the mythology of the story. I got a quarter of the way through another before I just had to put it down. I'm no expert as I did not finish reading even a second book, but what I did see was bad. I like my female characters to be fully developed parts of the story, not just necessary and objectified pieces. Like I said though; I could be wrong about him. It seems that if one favors the libertarian theme, they like the books. If they both notice and dislike the libertarian themes then they find reasons to not like it.
Of course there will always be those that don’t like something because it just does not fit them. But that is not the case here.
I am a libertarian. I always have been, even before I knew there was such a party or labeled ideology. I took a long hard honest look at the world and the people in it and came to understand things the way I do now. In fact I was quite surprised to find like minded persons out there more than a decade ago. As you might imagine I liked the series. Because I understood the themes I was able to understand the characters and identify. This, I’m sure, adds greatly to one’s potential enjoyment of the books. If you do not understand, or deny the truths (the premises) behind the themes I doubt you would like the story or the characters. At this point it would be easy for anyone to pick apart any series, as every work of art (writing, painting, etc) especially one as extensive as some 8-9 thousand pages can always be put in a bad light and dissected for apparent flaws; most of which look like such only in isolation. I see a lot of this here.
Whether it is a great series or a poor one for its ideology is in large part relative. You do not have to be a libertarian to like it, but it helps. Even someone who opposes libertarian thinking may like the story if they can avoid critiquing the themes as they read, and instead see the world created through the character’s eyes without prejudgment.
Thus, it is my humble opinion that the critic here should recuse himself from deciding the merit of these books because of his bias.

As a side note, I took breaks from BarBri and read Sanderson’s Mistborn novels (waiting for more Jordan as well, which helps since he’s now writing them). They were very good. No objectionable ideologies detected.
In fact the only writer I could not read was Turtledove. I read one book and chalked up the rampant sexism to the mythology of the story. I got a quarter of the way through another before I just had to put it down. I’m no expert as I did not finish reading even a second book, but what I did see was bad. I like my female characters to be fully developed parts of the story, not just necessary and objectified pieces. Like I said though; I could be wrong about him.

]]> By: Susan Simpson http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/#comment-560 Susan Simpson Fri, 18 Jun 2010 17:49:02 +0000 http://viewfromll2.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-560 You're right about the books not turning into Atlas Shrugs With Swords until later in the series -- I actually just bothered to look it up again now, it's in book 6, it looks like. Faith of the Fallen. But I think the whole series opens itself to criticism, either due to Goodkind's refusal to acknowledge that it is a work of fantasy, or the blatant ripping off of the Wheel of Time, or the creepy rape fetish. (Oh hey, look, another thing it has in common with Atlas Shrugs!) But no, the libertarian theme was not that objectionable, I don't think, until way later. But I haven't read the earlier books since middle school, so it's the later ones that stick out the clearest in my memory. It always felt to me, though, like Goodkind had exactly one Wizard's Rule to start off the series, and once he used that one up, he wasn't really sure where to go with it. You’re right about the books not turning into Atlas Shrugs With Swords until later in the series — I actually just bothered to look it up again now, it’s in book 6, it looks like. Faith of the Fallen.

But I think the whole series opens itself to criticism, either due to Goodkind’s refusal to acknowledge that it is a work of fantasy, or the blatant ripping off of the Wheel of Time, or the creepy rape fetish. (Oh hey, look, another thing it has in common with Atlas Shrugs!)

But no, the libertarian theme was not that objectionable, I don’t think, until way later. But I haven’t read the earlier books since middle school, so it’s the later ones that stick out the clearest in my memory.

It always felt to me, though, like Goodkind had exactly one Wizard’s Rule to start off the series, and once he used that one up, he wasn’t really sure where to go with it.

]]> By: David Nieporent http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/#comment-557 David Nieporent Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:23:07 +0000 http://viewfromll2.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-557 Your critique is slightly off, in that it is a general attack on the entire series, when in fact there are two Sword of Truth series. Books 1-4, were a standard sword-and-sorcery fantasy series, with some libertarian themes. Then, out of nowhere, Book 5 was just a paragraph-for-paragraph rewriting of the Fountainhead. From then on, it was just an extended treatise on Objectivism, with some sword-and-sorcery fantasy thinly overlaid on it. (I might be off by one book on where the switch occurred, as I'm doing this from memory.) Your critique is slightly off, in that it is a general attack on the entire series, when in fact there are two Sword of Truth series. Books 1-4, were a standard sword-and-sorcery fantasy series, with some libertarian themes. Then, out of nowhere, Book 5 was just a paragraph-for-paragraph rewriting of the Fountainhead. From then on, it was just an extended treatise on Objectivism, with some sword-and-sorcery fantasy thinly overlaid on it.

(I might be off by one book on where the switch occurred, as I’m doing this from memory.)

]]> By: Susan Simpson http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/#comment-459 Susan Simpson Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:04:55 +0000 http://viewfromll2.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-459 This comment is both devoid of substantive content and illogical. The writer clearly does not understand how hilarious it is that Goodkind thinks his books aren't fantasy. This comment is both devoid of substantive content and illogical. The writer clearly does not understand how hilarious it is that Goodkind thinks his books aren’t fantasy.

]]> By: Anonymous http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/#comment-458 Anonymous Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:34:56 +0000 http://viewfromll2.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-458 This critique is both snarky and disappointing. The writer clearly has no respect for the art of writing. This critique is both snarky and disappointing. The writer clearly has no respect for the art of writing.

]]> By: someone http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/#comment-424 someone Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:44:38 +0000 http://viewfromll2.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-424 thanks for writing this because when i saw that it those books were an international bestseller I freaked. thanks for writing this because when i saw that it those books were an international bestseller I freaked.

]]> By: Susan Simpson http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/#comment-342 Susan Simpson Fri, 12 Feb 2010 03:39:09 +0000 http://viewfromll2.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-342 You're the reason libertarians have such a bad name. You’re the reason libertarians have such a bad name.

]]> By: J.S. http://viewfromll2.com/2009/09/27/the-economic-agendas-of-sci-fi-and-fantasy-authors-vol-2-terry-goodkind/#comment-341 J.S. Fri, 12 Feb 2010 03:05:50 +0000 http://viewfromll2.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-341 It seems to me that you are a very troubled and insecure individual who cant simply enjoy an amazing and well structured story. Its for enjoyment if you dont like it then dont read it you stupid bitch. It seems to me that you are a very troubled and insecure individual who cant simply enjoy an amazing and well structured story. Its for enjoyment if you dont like it then dont read it you stupid bitch.

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